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Old 01-15-2008, 04:24 PM   #1
Vue&SL1
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Default 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

I was in the dealer today getting a part for the SL, and thought, "what the heck, let's find out about how much it really will cost me to have the timing belt and ancillary items done at 100,000".

The service guy would not give me a firm price except to show me a sheet that shows changing the oil, transmission drain and fill, new air filter, new fuel filter and a radiator flush with a price of $$$$645.00 PLUS 4.6 hours for the timing belt, the cost of the timing belt, water pump, spark plug removal labor, spark plugs themselves, etc.

I got frustrated because he wouldn't break out the just the price for the timing belt, water pump, fuel filter, spark plugs WITHOUT the oil change, etc.

This is going to be one d**mned expensive service is all I can say.

What I was wondering is that do I have a right to say, no I do not want your 645.00 dollar service for all that stuff I already do myself (except for the fuel filter) and all will pay for is the labor, timing belt itself, spark plug labor and part, water pump, fuel filter and that is it.

Going on their recommendation for the items I already do on my own I could see this costing almost 1500 bucks. Holy crap.

If you were me, how would some of you approach trying to just get the essential service done and cut of the simple tack on stuff.?

Thanks,

Jon

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Old 01-15-2008, 04:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

You have all kinds of rights -including the right to do nothing. What makes you believe that you must have the car serviced by this particular service department? If they won't perform the work you request, then go somewhere else. Any shop, including independents, can do the work. There is no law putting you over a barrel on car service.

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Old 01-15-2008, 04:48 PM   #3
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Thumbs Up Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

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Originally Posted by Gerry Proctor View Post
You have all kinds of rights -including the right to do nothing. What makes you believe that you must have the car serviced by this particular service department? If they won't perform the work you request, then go somewhere else. Any shop, including independents, can do the work. There is no law putting you over a barrel on car service.
t

Point well taken. This VUE is the nicest vehicle I have ever had and I was just in the mind set that for something as delicate and potentially damaging as a timing belt, etc., that the dealer would be more efficient and more comfortable with doing it. Just looking at the 3.5 and how it shoe horned in there, it seems like a major surgery to get this done.

At this moment I am rapidly changing my mind and will never pay that kind of money to Saturn for that service, unless I can get them to drop the superfluous stuff.

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Old 01-15-2008, 06:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

So you actually asked them about doing "other stuff" besides just the timing belt? That's where you went horribly wrong. They saw that as a major up-sell opportunity.

Ask very specifically for the exact things you want a price for.

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Old 01-15-2008, 07:27 PM   #5
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

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So you actually asked them about doing "other stuff" besides just the timing belt? That's where you went horribly wrong. They saw that as a major up-sell opportunity.

Ask very specifically for the exact things you want a price for.

NO, I did not ask them for any additional stuff. Conversation was,

"How much do the timing belt, water pump and spark plugs at 100,000 for my VUE sir"

service guy: "Well, uh, well....pause...here is this sheet we have here for 645 bucks where we do oil change, tranny flush, fuel filter, injector cleaning."

ME: "Well, the timing belt isn't even mentioned there? What is the deal"

service guy: "For the timing belt service it is 645 bucks per the sheet PLUS 4.6 hours for the timing belt and additional for the water pump and spark plug change".

ME: "Well, I already do the tranny flush myself, I do my own oil changes, replace my air filter, so what is just the timing belt, water pump, spark plugs, fuel filter cost then:

service guy: Blank stare...pause, blank stare...then, "Just come back when you are closer to 100,000 and we'll figure things out then" Started putzing with paperwork and then walked away to tend to other more important things.

DC, Not really sure how you surmised that I asked for additional extras. I said in my OP that I do my own oil changes, tranny stuff, etc.

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Old 01-15-2008, 08:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

Stealerships are a total rip off. The parts are around $100 for water pump and timing belt if you get from rockauto. From AZ or ADV Dis they are probably $150 or so.

Find yourself a good local mechanic and invest in the guy. Get to know him. Buy him donuts. Avoid stealerships at all cost when your vehicle is out of warranty. If you're somewhat mechanically skilled, go to alldatadiy.com, pay $25 and you can read an online manual on how to do the job yourself (of course you need the skills, tools, garage and time). I'm currently changing the timing belt and water pump on a 98 Dodge Stratus. I have about 2-3" to work in the cam area and a little more below. It's a nightmare but doable. I would hope/think that the Vue is an easier job.

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Old 01-15-2008, 10:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

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Stealerships are a total rip off. The parts are around $100 for water pump and timing belt if you get from rockauto. From AZ or ADV Dis they are probably $150 or so.

Find yourself a good local mechanic and invest in the guy. Get to know him. Buy him donuts. Avoid stealerships at all cost when your vehicle is out of warranty. If you're somewhat mechanically skilled, go to alldatadiy.com, pay $25 and you can read an online manual on how to do the job yourself (of course you need the skills, tools, garage and time). I'm currently changing the timing belt and water pump on a 98 Dodge Stratus. I have about 2-3" to work in the cam area and a little more below. It's a nightmare but doable. I would hope/think that the Vue is an easier job.
That's what I am going to end up doing. I would like to build a solid relationship with a smaller garage and have them with me for years. I hate going to dealerships and their games with trying to add on services I do not need.

I am just not mechanically inclined enough for a timing belt job, or else I would do it. Should have taken auto shop in high school! Could save me money on stuff liek this now.

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Old 01-15-2008, 11:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

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Originally Posted by Vue&SL1 View Post
DC, Not really sure how you surmised that I asked for additional extras. I said in my OP that I do my own oil changes, tranny stuff, etc.
Got it from this in your original post:""what the heck, let's find out about how much it really will cost me to have the timing belt and ancillary items done at 100,000".

But if you didn't ask, then just damn.... the guy couldn't even tell you what the timing belt job ran? That's pretty pathetic. Was he just a service "advisor" kind of guy?

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Old 01-16-2008, 07:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

It's always a good eye opener to see how high they jack the prices. If you go to gmpartsdirect you can buy them for a 'discount.' If you go to AZ, ADV Dis, Napa or others you can usually buy off brand for MUCH cheaper and even with a good or lifetime warranty. If you go to rockauto you can buy the stuff for even cheaper.

A friend of mine had a fan blower motor replaced on his caddy this past weekend. Dealership part I believe was $4xx. Mechanic told him he'd get it at a discounted $3xx. Parts from AZ was $160. Rockauto, $140. Rockauto sold delco parts which are probably OEM anyhow.

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Old 01-16-2008, 05:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

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Originally Posted by D C View Post
Got it from this in your original post:""what the heck, let's find out about how much it really will cost me to have the timing belt and ancillary items done at 100,000".

But if you didn't ask, then just damn.... the guy couldn't even tell you what the timing belt job ran? That's pretty pathetic. Was he just a service "advisor" kind of guy?
Hi Dc,

I should have been more clear in my OP. Ancillary stuff was while they were in doing the timing belt, throwing the water pump on, changing the really hard to get to spark plugs, fuel filter, and valve lash adjustment.

I am not sure where on the pecking order the guy was. I hate going into service departments. It always seems like they think I am bothering them when I go in there. And I am always really nice, but they seem to shade over my original question because it interferes with their little sale pitch on needless add ons. I thought Saturn was supposed to be very up front in their dealerships. So far, they aren't much better than the Nissan dealer I used to deal with when I had a Sentra back in the day.

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Old 01-16-2008, 05:03 PM   #11
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

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Originally Posted by 2Fast4U View Post
It's always a good eye opener to see how high they jack the prices. If you go to gmpartsdirect you can buy them for a 'discount.' If you go to AZ, ADV Dis, Napa or others you can usually buy off brand for MUCH cheaper and even with a good or lifetime warranty. If you go to rockauto you can buy the stuff for even cheaper.

A friend of mine had a fan blower motor replaced on his caddy this past weekend. Dealership part I believe was $4xx. Mechanic told him he'd get it at a discounted $3xx. Parts from AZ was $160. Rockauto, $140. Rockauto sold delco parts which are probably OEM anyhow.
Thanks for the tips 2fast. I am going to the rock auto web site as I have heard that name in this forum quite a bit. Just found out that I way overpaid for the Gates serpentine belt I bought at OReillys. I could have got for about half the cost. I paid 32 bucks plus 5.5% tax on the belt. My fault for not price shopping.

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Old 01-16-2008, 05:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

There can be (and in many stores there really is) a difference between sales and service. The managers of each department work under a different set of rules. At my retailer, the GSM outright told me that their sales come from their service department -meaning that treating customers right in service leads to more car sales. Sadly, some dealerships operate under the legacy model of getting as much money out of the customer as possible. These are the kind of dealerships that are happy to sell you just one car and they don't care if you ever come back.

The service manager (and writers) are under pressure to upsell on service. This is where injector, trans, and engine flushes come from. They are euphemistically referred to as “wallet flushes.”

Your role as the customer is to demand a different level of consideration and make sure they know that. Being nice is nice, but you can be nice and assertive at the same time. It's a matter of respect. You don't need to abuse someone to get what you're expecting but you need to make sure they understand you aren't going to take any crap and if the person you were working with won't answer your question to have him get someone who will.

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Old 01-16-2008, 09:13 PM   #13
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

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Originally Posted by Gerry Proctor View Post
There can be (and in many stores there really is) a difference between sales and service. The managers of each department work under a different set of rules. At my retailer, the GSM outright told me that their sales come from their service department -meaning that treating customers right in service leads to more car sales. Sadly, some dealerships operate under the legacy model of getting as much money out of the customer as possible. These are the kind of dealerships that are happy to sell you just one car and they don't care if you ever come back.

The service manager (and writers) are under pressure to upsell on service. This is where injector, trans, and engine flushes come from. They are euphemistically referred to as “wallet flushes.”

Your role as the customer is to demand a different level of consideration and make sure they know that. Being nice is nice, but you can be nice and assertive at the same time. It's a matter of respect. You don't need to abuse someone to get what you're expecting but you need to make sure they understand you aren't going to take any crap and if the person you were working with won't answer your question to have him get someone who will.
I will take a more firm, yet nice approach when dealing with service departments. There was a guy who was yelling at the guy I was dealing with before I came in there. He resided at a closed door in a small office with a large window facing the service bays. Probably was the head cheese who pressures the guy I dealt with to up-sell the customer.

Man, I wish I could do stuff like timing belts. Just too scary of a job for a any newbie to do. Shame too, as I have a ton of nice tools and an oversized garage in which to perform the work. Just don't have the skills though.

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Old 01-17-2008, 09:23 AM   #14
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

We went through this discussion back in July and Big Daddy, a certified Saturn tech, got involved. He was talking about the 3.0 engine. I asked him how much to do the 3.5 and he didn't reply. He recommended the belt, water pump, coolant flush, tranny flush, etc. just as was recommended to you. In that thread, the timing belt only could be had for $350/$450, if you knew where to go.
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:01 PM   #15
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

(the following is armchair analysis.......not based on actually doing it)

Looking at the FSM, it appears the only special tool you would definitely need is the crankshaft pulley remover. The other stuff looks like it could easily be fabricated at home. There are indicators on the cam and the crank sprockets and the adjacent housings, so it looks like it's not that difficult to verify that the rotating parts are all in proper relationship after assembly.

The belt is about 30 bucks and a water pump 120. I'd say it's a days work for the amateur mechanic.

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Old 01-17-2008, 11:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

Rockauto water pump for 3.5L is $60 and $63 at AZ with a lifetime warranty.

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Old 01-18-2008, 01:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

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(the following is armchair analysis.......not based on actually doing it)

Looking at the FSM, it appears the only special tool you would definitely need is the crankshaft pulley remover. The other stuff looks like it could easily be fabricated at home. There are indicators on the cam and the crank sprockets and the adjacent housings, so it looks like it's not that difficult to verify that the rotating parts are all in proper relationship after assembly.

The belt is about 30 bucks and a water pump 120. I'd say it's a days work for the amateur mechanic.
There's another thread on here about being able to work on this thing. If it was a forward-facing engine, it might not be bad. I don't know how easy a job it is to do it with that strut tower in the way. I don't see any Saturn techs commenting like we would hope there would be.

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Old 01-22-2008, 10:41 PM   #18
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

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Originally Posted by Vue&SL1 View Post
Man, I wish I could do stuff like timing belts. Just too scary of a job for a any newbie to do. Shame too, as I have a ton of nice tools and an oversized garage in which to perform the work. Just don't have the skills though.
Buy the service manual, read through the procedure, and give it a shot. If you've done things like brakes and alternators before, something like this would be the next learning step IMO. Take your time, take pictures if you need to, and be clean and orderly with all of the parts.

I started working on my car in college because I didn't want to pay a mechanic $70/hr while a student. That was a '94 Z28. I ended up driving that car almost 300,000 miles without taking it to a garage once (so much for all those people who say GM builds cars that don't last). That engine ran great, I never removed a valve cover until 270,000 miles, and it had hundreds of passes down a drag strip.

Also, that dealership was trying to rip you off. Unfortunately, I think that is status quo for dealerships. Ask some friends what shop they trust, and then go to two or three of them and ask for a ballpark quote to have a timing belt changed.

Also, there is no reason to CHANGE the waterpump, IMO. It may need to be removed to change the belt, but if it was working before, I would keep it.

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Old 01-22-2008, 10:54 PM   #19
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

Hmm, up here in the great white north, it my understanding they want us to replace at 100,000 KM. (100,000MI = 160930KM) Are we being taken for a ride????

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Old 01-23-2008, 07:44 AM   #20
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Default Re: 100,000 mile timing belt estimate from Saturn

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There's another thread on here about being able to work on this thing. If it was a forward-facing engine, it might not be bad. I don't know how easy a job it is to do it with that strut tower in the way. I don't see any Saturn techs commenting like we would hope there would be.
It's not that difficult of a job. I've changed timing belts on other FWD cars and once you remove the wheel & splash-shield, there's plenty access to the crankshaft dampener. Things are tight, but not that tight.

As for the water pump. If it's not broke, don't fix it, right? But Murphy's Law would dictate that the pump seal start leaking a week after you were in there. Tossup on whether to change it now or later. Depends on the part cost and the PITA factor to change it. A water pump shouldn't be too difficult.

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