weird acting brakes

[green]

My vehicle has rear drums no ABS. Brakes stop good, the brake light does NOT show up after releasing parking brake. It's low on power steering fluid. I added brake fluid and it remains at the H mark for couple of weeks.

So why:

after turning off engine have to pump pedal 4 times to get a hard pedal.

it's somewhat low an spongy when hitting brakes at traffic light.

park in a downhill rear brakes skip just slightly sometimes.

On my mother's Toyota I've got hard pedal at all times.

WEIRD.

[Gerry Proctor]

Most likely is that the master cylinder is leaking. Look at the back of the master for brake fluid running down the front of the booster. If you don't see any evidence, then you need to thoroughly inspect the rest of the hydraulic system for signs of the leak. You have to be leaking the fluid since it's not consumed.

If you don't know how to work on brakes, you need to have the work done by a professional.

[eljefino]

The power steering fluid is a red herring, has no relation to the brakes.

If you're adding brake fluid and it's disappearing, you have a leak. Most likely you have a mostly rusted out line that could blow completely tomorrow. One thing you can do is park on a huge sheet of cardboard then go stand on the pedal hard, and see where wetness is coming from.

Fix this, as it is never normal to go through brake fluid!

[madpogue]

The hard pedal after four pumps is just the reserve vacuum of the power brake booster being exhausted. Perfectly normal.

Perhaps the Toyota doesn't have power brakes.

A soft pedal (esp. if you report rear brakes "skipping" [whatever that is]) commonly means the rear brakes are out of adjustment. They're _supposed_ to self-adjust whenever you brake in reverse, but the self-adjusters aren't terribly reliable, and if you don't use reverse much, you won't get much adjustment. You should adjust the rear brakes to where they JUST start to drag, just EVER so slightly. You'll probably also notice improved parking brake performance when you do this.

[green]

When I replenished the master cylinder it was at the L mark. After adding fluid it hasn't gone down at all. I don't see any leaks at master cylinder.
Could the wheel cylinder be slightly leaking?

The Toyota has power brakes and ABS.

[fdryer]

All the suggestions are for you either to actually examine the entire braking system at each wheel well to determine if there are any mechanical problems or to bring your car to a brake repair shop for expert diagnosis. Filling the master cylinder from the 'Low" mark can mean that the brakes are worn and need inspection, a leak occurred (potential danger if not looked into), and/or the brakes need adjustment. Any or all of this should be part of a regular maintenance routine whether done at 5-mile intervals or 5,000 miles. Part of car ownership with record keeping for reference.

Just to throw you a curve on brake maintenance, someone recently had a similar situation just like you with rear drums but his poor braking was from lack of maintenance on the front disc brakes. He had already replaced the pads and rotors and a few thousand miles later found the brake pedal going soft. It turned out that he never removed the calipers to expose the two slide pins allowing the calipers to self align with the rotor/pads. The pins were rusted/corroded in place causing uneven wear, ruining the rotors and only one disc pad wore instead of both evenly. He wound up replacing everything again but made sure the slide pins allowed the calipers to self align for even wear and perfect braking again. Overlooking one part of brake maintenance cost him time and money to do it right the second time and share his experience with us.

[rc1488]

^^^+1

[nivlem7]

Originally Posted by green

The Toyota has power brakes and ABS.

Hmmm.... maybe it (the toyota) has a leaky booster diaphragm. As someone mentioned earlier, it's completely normal to get "hard" pedal after the engine is shut off. This is because power brakes are powered by the vacuum in the intake manifold. I believe brakes can also be powered by the power steering pump, but not on your S-car.