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Old 05-31-2002, 10:35 AM   #1
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Attention Gm Jumps, Nissan Pukes.

The latest JD Power Quality ratings are out.

GM jumps to 130, putting them in third just behind Honda. Toyota, as usual, takes the top spot. Nissan dropped to 6th place with 152.

Car models ranking highest in their segment are:

Segments ---------------Car Models
Compact Car----------- Toyota Corolla and Toyota Prius (tie)
Entry Midsize Car -----Chevrolet Malibu
Premium Midsize Car -Buick Century
Full-Size Car -----------Buick LeSabre
Entry Luxury Car ------Ford Thunderbird
Mid Luxury Car ---------Lexus GS 300/GS 430
Premium Luxury Car-- Lexus LS 430
Sporty Car --------------Mazda Miata
Premium Sports Car ---Chevrolet Corvette


Quote:
While the world's largest automaker still lags behind the best Japanese automakers, it scored better than Honda did a year ago and dominated the North American assembly-plant quality rankings.
http://www.auto.com/industry/power31_20020531.htm



http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/pre...asp?ID=2002040

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Old 05-31-2002, 10:50 AM   #2
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It's good that GM moved up. My dad has a 1998 Malibu that has had no warranty repairs or other repairs (He has only 12,000 miles on it). But if you read the times this IQS is geared more for the manufactuer than the car buyer. Shows getting INITITAL quailty right (Means assembled right). Dosen't show how well a car will hold up for the long term. Looks good in advertisments.

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Old 05-31-2002, 11:16 AM   #3
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2002 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
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It might be for initial quality, but you know what they say about first impressions. A potential buyer will be more confident in a new cars long-term quality if it's put together well right from the get go. I'm really surprised that GM took top honors in the mid- and full-size categories. Those are usually the meat and potatoes of a car line.

Does anyone know what Honda and Toyota scored.

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Old 05-31-2002, 11:25 AM   #4
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But if I buy a car and after 91 days it has problems those problems don't show up on the list. Some problems take a few months to crop up. I agree that this is a great step for GM but longer term REALITY counts not just 90 days. If a tranny goes in a year or 2 or so I would be upset and not buy that car.

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Old 05-31-2002, 01:36 PM   #5
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I am wondering how the Malibu got rated so well. Th car as a whole is not bad, but as soon as the warranty died, so did the car.
Several intake gaskets, numerous injectors, leaking coolant lines, and a couple oxygen sensors.
We practically had to drag the thing in for the trade on the VUE.
And that was at 65k. Maybe the ones after '97 were better, but I don't know.

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Old 05-31-2002, 01:42 PM   #6
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You didn't have problems within the 90 day frame. Proves my point if the car falls apart after 3 years

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Old 05-31-2002, 02:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by thatjerryguy
It might be for initial quality, but you know what they say about first impressions. A potential buyer will be more confident in a new cars long-term quality if it's put together well right from the get go. I'm really surprised that GM took top honors in the mid- and full-size categories. Those are usually the meat and potatoes of a car line.

Does anyone know what Honda and Toyota scored.

Among major automakers, Toyota averaged 107 problems per 100 vehicles, down from 115 last year. Honda Motor Co. Ltd. followed in second place again with 113, down from 133.

GM, with a score of 130, down from 146, moved into third spot from fourth last year ahead of Nissan Motor Co., the only automaker whose problems increased.

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Old 05-31-2002, 03:10 PM   #8
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They listed the Ford Thunderbird as near-luxury? Isn't it priced at over 40,000 dollars? I thought near-luxury was in the $30-35K range. You know, Like the Lincoln LS, 3.2CL, BMW 3 series, Lexus IS300, cars like that.

...
Current Vehicles:
2003 Acura 3.2CL
2000 Saturn SL1

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Old 05-31-2002, 03:45 PM   #9
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you know, it doesn't really matter anyway. You're just as likely to get a piece of crap no matter what brand you buy.
Everyone in my family drives domestics and my mom's 97 InCrapid is the only car to have problems.
Also, everyone on my wife's side drive imports and my inlaws had an engine problem with their 2000 Accord within 6K. It wouldn't go over 40 KM/H. Repairs were all under warranty so that's good.
My uncle had a 1990 Mazda pickup with no probs for 10 years and 200K + KM.
He bought a new 2000 model and brought it back to the dealer 15 times within the first 2 months for minor quality issues.
I will always buy domestic because that's my preference regardless of their ratings.

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Old 06-01-2002, 04:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Everyone in my family drives domestics and my mom's 97 InCrapid is the only car to have problems.
InCrapid, eh?

Over the year and a half that I owned my Intrepid, it'd been labled the "Incrapid", "Increpid", "Decrepid", and the "Piece of s**t."

Mine was also a '97. What kind of problems did your mom have with hers, out of curiosity?

Ed

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Old 06-01-2002, 04:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by SATURNFAN13185-2


InCrapid, eh?

Over the year and a half that I owned my Intrepid, it'd been labled the "Incrapid", "Increpid", "Decrepid", and the "Piece of s**t."

Mine was also a '97. What kind of problems did your mom have with hers, out of curiosity?

Ed
Major transmission trouble. I dunno exactly what it was, but I remember her and my dad telling me "the transmission went" and it cost $1800 CDN to have it fixed. It happened 2K KM past the warranty and Chrysler basically said "too bad for you, the warranty is up". Seeing as it was the 2nd car my mom had bought from the same dealer, you would think they would at least help out a bit. The loaner she was given was a dodge neon with a broken serpentine belt. (I assume that was the issue since the power steering, air and cruise didn't work on it.)

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Old 06-01-2002, 08:07 PM   #12
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You guys are such skeptics...not that I blame you sometimes. Then again, my own experience with the supposedly "superior" Honda Accord proves they can be just as big of a headache as any domestic. Single biggest POS Ive ever owned. My 1970 Opel GT, which started out as a near basket case, was more reliable.

I give them credit. They not only moved up, but they beat Hondas score for last year...everybody was crowing about Honda build quality when they scored a 133, yet GM does a 130, and that's reason to complain? Honda's own Accord got beat by of all things, a Buick Century.

Lets see if they can maintain this....and do something about the interior material quality.

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Old 06-01-2002, 08:36 PM   #13
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I was surprised to see Nissan drop back. They have had their share of problems lately.

But then, my SE-R has been flawless so far. I still haven't wiped my stupid grin off my face.

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Old 06-01-2002, 08:58 PM   #14
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I think GM's quality has always been good. People are just blinded my the media when GM recalls 2 million vehicles for a mal-functioning ashtray. They see honda recalls several thousand and that makes GM much worse because there are more perceived problems. They don't realize GM outsells Honda 10-1 so of course there will be "more" problems, but it's the ratio that matters, not quantity.
My brother-in-law is the worst for this type of thing. All things Honda is fantastic, all things domestic are not. Typical Toronto attitude. Little does he realize all the recalls on his Odyssey....

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Old 06-01-2002, 09:06 PM   #15
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And just to throw in my input in response to PG there. My 1988 Accord lasted 250,000+ miles without any major problems and no powertrain issues at all. I dearly miss that car and had lots of good road trips in it. With 4 years of driving and 70,000 miles on the odometer, my 1998 Accord is a gem in itself. Great refinement. No squeeks or rattles. Great interior layout and material. My wife's 2000 LW has a great powertrain for an inline 4 but the darn thing has so many little bugs that should've been handled at the production line. Holding both current generation midsize cars in a Honda and Saturn in its first year iterations, I definitely can see where GM/Saturn needs to work on. Most of where the Accord uses screws, the Saturn uses a snap on (ex. the audio/HVAC cover piece) and Saturn uses a multipiece center armrest where the Accord is almost a 1 piece that won't rattle in the long term. I am not saying Honda is godlike or anything, but just throwing out what I've been evaluating first hand between my car and my wife's car for the past 2 years now.

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Old 06-01-2002, 09:50 PM   #16
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The thing with pre-1998 Honda products is that you can and people do steal them all the time with a small screwdriver. Their theft rates are horrible. Was just out to dinner with a friend - she mailed in her last payment and her Accord was stolen the next week. The found it stripped. At least GM products make an ignition that you can't really bypass with a nailclipper.

BTW - My dad drove his Continental and then a Cougar XR7 each to over 220k without any major problems and I'd rather be in a Continental than an Accord.

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Old 06-01-2002, 09:54 PM   #17
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Same here,

2003 Corolla (major redesign) is put together right inside and under the hood.

2000 LS (traded) had a great powertrain but many nagging design (not assembly) problems that nobody could solve.

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Old 06-01-2002, 09:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by BobL
Same here,

2003 Corolla (major redesign) is put together right inside and under the hood.

.
except for the bolts in the brake/hub assembly that if loosen can cause total vehicle loss.....

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Old 06-01-2002, 10:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by piney
The thing with pre-1998 Honda products is that you can and people do steal them all the time with a small screwdriver. Their theft rates are horrible. Was just out to dinner with a friend - she mailed in her last payment and her Accord was stolen the next week. The found it stripped. At least GM products make an ignition that you can't really bypass with a nailclipper.
That's really funny you mentioned that. I remember sometime in the mid 90's, my model year 1988 Accord was the number 2 stolen car in the US. What's funny was in the same driveway (I was in school at the time living at home) my dad's 1986 Olds Cutless Supreme was #1. He had that thing stolen like at least 5 times. All was because of joy rides, nothing stripped or totaled. The last time was right in the driveway of our house from some joyriders. All that was needed was a small crowbar to break the steering wheel collar and a flathead screw driver to start up the ignition. My 88 Accord was never been stolen.

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Old 06-02-2002, 12:08 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by piney
The thing with pre-1998 Honda products is that you can and people do steal them all the time with a small screwdriver. Their theft rates are horrible. Was just out to dinner with a friend - she mailed in her last payment and her Accord was stolen the next week. The found it stripped. At least GM products make an ignition that you can't really bypass with a nailclipper.

BTW - My dad drove his Continental and then a Cougar XR7 each to over 220k without any major problems and I'd rather be in a Continental than an Accord.

OMG! That is so funny that you mention that!!! One of the "numerous" failures on my Accord, was the ignition switch! Damn thing broke blocking my driveway when I lived downtown! After busting off the puny ignition tumbler, I hotwired the car. I drove it like that for 3 days before replacing it. I kept hoping someone would steal it at work...I suppose one look at its rusted, blistering door bottoms, fenders, and rear decklid were enough to convince a theif to steal something with more class.

If nothing else just to keep it from leaking oil and antifreeze all over my garage floor. A few months later I was parked in on the street, with an older caddillac against my rear bumper, and about 3 inches between my front bumper and another Honda. I thought, hey, I'll just give the dip**** in the Caddy a shove backwards, and out I go! In addition to the clutch slipping the moment I tried, something else happened...the bumper folded under the car!!!! Yeah, I got out, but the friggen bumper was bent down at 60 degree angle, with the side flaps sticking up! THE BUMPER SUPPORTS HAD RUSTED OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAH AHHAHHAHHHHHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHHAAAA AA! My friend and I were laughing so hard we had hiccups!

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