SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Vue > Vue General
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-11-2004, 01:49 PM   #1
Robinator
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Idea VTi/CVT - They may have actually fixed it....we'll see....

Please see these two previous threads if you need background story/information:
(1) http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...threadid=32321
(2) http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...threadid=32366

So, I spoke to the Service Manager just now (because I called him and wanted an explaination of what they "diagnosed" the problem to be), and after he gave me all the technical mumbo-jumbo, he told me in layman's terms that it was a problem equivalent to a "traditional" or standard/manual tranny trying to launch from 2nd or 3rd gear. So they did a 2nd software upgrade (in addition to the OBD one they did on Tuesday) to fix it. It's a TSB, and I will post a copy of it tomorrow for you all (he's giving me a copy of the shop TSB sheet with my receipts).

They also put in some tranny additive (that from my understanding isn't supposed to go in until 50,000 miles) to fix the grinding noise (that I described to them as a quiet "winding down noise" on deceleration).

Does the explaination of the tranny problem make sense to y'all? Kinda makes sense to me because the loss of power sort of feels similar to a manual tranny "lurching" if you try to accelerate from the wrong gear. Let's hope it's the real solution. Maybe the date on the TSB will give us some indication (i.e. newer = better/recent research).

I'll keep ya posted....

Last edited by Robinator; 03-11-2004 at 01:59 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Robinator's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Robinator reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
 
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 03-11-2004, 03:27 PM   #2
ricksLS1
Master Member
ricksLS1 has a spectacular aura aboutricksLS1 has a spectacular aura about
 
ricksLS1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: NY
Posts: 5,576
 
Default

The additive is a maintenace item to be done at 50,000 miles according tothe owners manual. If Severe useage change the fuild and add additive. You would think the additive would be done at the factory. It was part of the supplement to my owners manual when I got my VUE.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to ricksLS1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help ricksLS1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
ricksLS1 is offline  
Old 03-11-2004, 03:52 PM   #3
Robinator
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I suppose it's possible that the "additive" was invented after our VUE's were built and shipped....who knows. Maybe we can give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.

As for the comparison of the hesitation issue to a manual tranny attempting to accelerate from 2nd or 3rd gear....make sense to nayone out there in Saturn-land?

And an Owner's Manual supplement....hhhmmmmmm...I never got one or heard of one existing?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Robinator's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Robinator reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
 
Old 03-11-2004, 03:56 PM   #4
sspeer
Senior Member
sspeer is on a distinguished road
 
sspeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,834
 
Default

If it's starting at too high of a ratio, I suppose that would cause extra stress.

Would a programming problem cause production to stop? Couldn't they just reflash the computer?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to sspeer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help sspeer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
sspeer is offline  
Old 03-11-2004, 03:57 PM   #5
Robinator
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What does "starting at too high of a ratio" mean?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Robinator's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Robinator reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
 
Old 03-11-2004, 04:24 PM   #6
pd1601
Member
pd1601 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 406
 

2004 VUE 3.5L
2001 SL1
Default

The additive is documented at some point. What is worrying is that its usage is intended at higher mileages when there is the likelihood of wear. The fact it gets introduced for any tranny problem at lower mileage is a concern. Especially when its introduction does nothing to cure the weird scraps, growl and whines I get. Right now, I am not inclined to believe anything I am told.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to pd1601's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help pd1601 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
pd1601 is offline  
Old 03-11-2004, 08:32 PM   #7
bobacker
Member
bobacker is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Mead, CO
Posts: 200
Default

The real question is, is the grinding noise fixed?

If so, good. If not... well they tried all that with mine, kept it for a week, and eventually replaced the case (with many internal components attached).

It has been good since then (5000 miles), currently 17,600 miles.

Hope it works well for you.

Bob

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to bobacker's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help bobacker reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
bobacker is offline  
Old 03-11-2004, 09:18 PM   #8
walt
Senior Member
walt has a spectacular aura aboutwalt has a spectacular aura aboutwalt has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: massapequa N.Y.
Posts: 1,941
Default

The real story is im told 10K to replace this baby.No one has ever said why its such an extreme cost for the vti since this is suppose to be a simpler tranny. I was hoping AAMCO or one of the other guys would of had rebuilts for 3K or something like that.When your warranty is up you have to get rid of the truck unless your a person who spends all his free time and all his vacations in Vegas I cant see why anyone would want to own a VUE with vti after the warranty is expired.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to walt's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help walt reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
walt is offline  
Old 03-12-2004, 09:13 AM   #9
Robinator
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

As promised, I am trying to attach the TSB to this post, but the file size is too big. I will gladly email it to anyone who wants it - just send me a PM.

The bad news is that the problem happened again on my way to work this morning - not even 24 hours after they "fixed" my vehicle. I have already requested my third service appointment this week. I anticipate my car will be with them tomorrow, or early next week.

Then I guess it's on the the Lemon Law.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Robinator's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Robinator reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
 
Old 03-12-2004, 09:25 AM   #10
sspeer
Senior Member
sspeer is on a distinguished road
 
sspeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,834
 
Default

Saturn has to have lost alot of money fixing these VTis

One would think it would be cheaper to just replace them with conventional automatics if the owners wanted to.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to sspeer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help sspeer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
sspeer is offline  
Old 03-12-2004, 09:30 AM   #11
Robinator
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That was one of my questions (either in this post, or a previous one) - CAN they do that? Not "would, could, should," but can they PHYSICALLY do it? Will the conventional tranny "match up" sizewise, mechanically, etc. with the engine that was meant for the VTi to be attached to it?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Robinator's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Robinator reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
 
Old 03-12-2004, 09:44 AM   #12
sspeer
Senior Member
sspeer is on a distinguished road
 
sspeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,834
 
Default

I think in the near future Saturn will have to either do a re-engineering job, either seriously beefing up the VTi (perhaps it could handle the 170 HP ecotec????) or bolting a conventional tranny on it.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to sspeer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help sspeer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
sspeer is offline  
Old 03-12-2004, 10:24 AM   #13
Laurence
Member
Laurence is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 352
Default

I don't think Saturn could retrofit a conventional auto tranny to replace the VTi but since I'm not an engineer I could be wrong. Seems to me that as the miles build up on the VTi's more and more are falling aaprt. But what Saturn will do is an unknown at this point. I'd like to see Saturn either replace the VTi with a regular automatic as and when problems occur, or of that is not possible then buy back the vehicle. But I'm not holding my breath.

Laurence

2003 White VUE FWD VTi
Tan Leather interior

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Laurence's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Laurence reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Laurence is offline  
Old 03-12-2004, 11:32 AM   #14
BobL
Master Member
BobL is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 4,559
Default

No sympathy at all for GM here.

The VTI was pulled back 3 times pre-release for problems.

How dare them not test adequately in all climates before releasing it.

What would it have taken to set up a few VUE's with the VTI and put them in fleet service?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to BobL's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help BobL reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
BobL is offline  
Old 03-12-2004, 11:41 AM   #15
ricksLS1
Master Member
ricksLS1 has a spectacular aura aboutricksLS1 has a spectacular aura about
 
ricksLS1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: NY
Posts: 5,576
 
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Robinator
I suppose it's possible that the "additive" was invented after our VUE's were built and shipped....who knows. Maybe we can give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.

As for the comparison of the hesitation issue to a manual tranny attempting to accelerate from 2nd or 3rd gear....make sense to nayone out there in Saturn-land?

And an Owner's Manual supplement....hhhmmmmmm...I never got one or heard of one existing?
It was a piece of paper in the owners manual. I got my 2003 in December 2002

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to ricksLS1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help ricksLS1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
ricksLS1 is offline  
Old 03-12-2004, 12:22 PM   #16
Laurence
Member
Laurence is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 352
Default

Rick:

I wouldn't give GM the benefit of the doubt on anything right now. It's we who invested our heard-earned money (in my case Social Security) in a VTi VUE. I should have known better than to trust that GM tested properly. If they'd have been smart they would have installed a regular optional auto tranny in the 2002 VUE with the 2.2 L engine plus VTi's for fleet owners to see how they held up so they could get any bugs out before they were let loose on an unsuspecting public. To expect buyers to do their beta testing is unconscionable. From what I read on this forum things will sooner or later come to a peak with the VTi and there will be a huge outcry from those saddled with a problem tranny and the bad publicity will cost Saturn and GM millions in lost sales, replacement, and repairs as once confidence is lost it's hard to recover.

The sad thing about all of this is that the VUE is a nice SUV and well-priced and affordable compared to others and I enjoy driving it. But there's always that little voice reminding me that the VTi could fail at any time and leave me stranded someplace since I now have the shudder/vibration problem.

Laurence

2003 White VUE FWD VTi
Tan Leather interior

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Laurence's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Laurence reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Laurence is offline  
Old 03-12-2004, 09:32 PM   #17
frankgstump
Junior Member
frankgstump is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 26
 
Default

At 7900 miles I have the shudder/vibration problem as well as the grinding noise at very low speeds in my Vue Vti. I took it in this morning for a check. One of the techs took it around the parking lot for a test and came back & told me that it definitely had the grinding sound. He said they would reprogram the TCM again and put in the additive, and then test drive it again. After the test drive he reported that the noise was still there and that the cover assembly and valve body would have to be replaced, actually almost a new transmission and that it would take a full day to do the job. I asked him about my plans next week of taking a 1200 mile round trip to PA and back to NC, he said not a problem the transmission is in no danger of failing, take the trip and call for an appointment upon return. This tech really seemed to know what he was talking about and not trying to hide a problem, I was really impressed. I'll post my experience of the transmission repair and if it solved the problem. I really enjoy the vehicle & hope it works.
Frank

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to frankgstump's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help frankgstump reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
frankgstump is offline  
Old 03-13-2004, 12:25 AM   #18
sgrol
Member
sgrol is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Magnolia, Tx
Posts: 85
Default

My 2002 L200 has the same 2.2L as my Vue and it has a 'regular' automatic transmission that has been flawless. I think I would be willing to give up my AWD to get a decent trans, be it standard or auto. I'm on my secvond VTI and about out of warranty.

...
06 RAV4
2000 F250 7.3 Diesel 4x4
97 SC2 (sold)
02 L200 (sold)
03 Vue VTI AWD (sold)
01 Dodge 2500 CTD

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to sgrol's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help sgrol reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
sgrol is offline  
Old 03-13-2004, 01:17 PM   #19
Laurence
Member
Laurence is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 352
Default

Frank:

You're brave to take that trip with a grinding VTi and shuddering VUE. We all hope that you have no problems and return safely. I've found that some techs know what they're talking about and others don't. From what I gather there are far more problem VTi VUE's out there than anyone thought or that Saturn will admit to.

Laurence

2003 White VUE FWD VTi
Tan leather interior

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Laurence's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Laurence reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Laurence is offline  
Old 03-13-2004, 07:18 PM   #20
torque
Member
torque is on a distinguished road
 
torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: lansing,MI
Posts: 54
 
Default

hopefully I wont ruffle any feathers with this post, but I have read a lot of posts about noises and vibrations with the vti. i agree with the fact that the end user of any product should be the beta tester and that GM has not done all of the necessary homework to make this transmission work properly. the software is the much larger problem due to the design of the belt/pulley. if the engineers had done proper testing in ALL weather and terrain conditions, we might have a better product. instead they are just giving retailers "patches" for the software that is already in place.
granted, i am not and engineer or designer, i am only the tech in the shop who has to try and explain to my customer that there is only so much that i can due. i really feel that this trans should not be used in production at all until these issues are resloved.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to torque's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help torque reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
torque is offline  
Closed Thread



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
VTI/ vs CVT transmission?? Neal Vue General 19 01-20-2007 06:35 PM
VTi/CVT contradiction Robinator Vue General 3 03-12-2004 11:44 PM
VTI (CVT transmission) cam Vue General 10 03-06-2004 05:30 AM
How reliable is the VTI (CVT) tranny in the QC? johnsocal Ion General 3 05-12-2003 04:50 PM
CVT (VTi) it's April - is it available? SEVUE2002 General Saturn Discussion 4 05-06-2002 01:37 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:29 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.