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Old 03-25-2001, 07:26 PM   #1
Jon94SoLo2
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Default Have you seen the Subaru WRX?

I have to say. It's a car like the Subaru WRX, with a list price of $23,999 that's making me think of trading in my Saturn. I just wish Saturn would produce a car like this! I'm sure it wouldn't be to difficult to do, the SL/SC line has the base chasis and engine for the build-up.

Sigh!

Jon

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Old 03-25-2001, 09:20 PM   #2
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Aside from just an engine build up and turbo, don't forget the momo steering wheel, larger brake rotors, 205/55-16" rims, AWD, functional hood scoops, rally look, and best of all, a wagon option on the WRX.

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Old 03-25-2001, 09:23 PM   #3
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not to sound like my parents but good things come to those that wait. don't worry it may take a couple years but they'll produce one h#ll of a ride.

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Old 03-25-2001, 10:36 PM   #4
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Not just larger brake rotors, but rotors at all four corners, can't get that on any S series Saturns (at least not from Spring Hill these days). And while the hood scoop may look somewhat "boy-racer-ish" it is a functional item feeding the intercooler. Big power, good handling, big brakes, only moderately funky styling (think back to some other Subarus). There is a lot to like in that package.

As for good things coming to those who wait, I have to ask why Saturn should think that patience is seemingly infinite. Sure there have been changes in the S series over the years, but overall when you look at things, at best it's still 1991 under there. Then there is the L series, you know the one where you cannot get a manual transmission with the V-6. I have been patiently waiting for Saturn to do something and so far it is limited to these teaser production based concept models that they then turn around and do not produce.

If they plan to do something, they had better do it soon or it could be too late to do anything. At that point, Saturn risks becoming the next Oldsmobile.

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Old 03-25-2001, 11:43 PM   #5
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If only it weren't for these darn tuition payments.......

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Old 03-25-2001, 11:50 PM   #6
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You can't really blame Saturn for the fact that they are not coming out with (nor are they likely to come out with) cars like the WRX, which are pretty extreme performance vehicles as opposed to something to appeal to the masses; you'll have to lay that blame primarily on GM and GM politics. Remember, Saturn was screaming for a midsize offering for yeears, but do you think the "divisions" (i.e., Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, Buick) wanted another competitor in their backyards? Nope - so Saturn got the starvation diet.

Do you really think that say, Chevy wants some Saturn that can spank say, 'Vettes? Don't think so! Think Pontiac wants some more competition in their "excitement" backyard? No way! I also think that that kind of thinking is why GM is shutting down divisions and losing market share overall. They have, in Saturn, their best shot at regaining some of the customers lost to foreign nameplates, particularly Japanese, and they're largely letting it slip through their hands by starving Saturn of product expansions and de-contenting their existing products. Yes they are now (finally!) starting to get some new products, but they've stripped Saturn of some autonomy in those new offerings and are exhibiting the bean counting evils in those new offerings (like the rear drum brakes in the Lx1's).

Their conservative thinking and bean counting won't allow room for extreme performance versions of their cars (at least not off the production line).

::sighs::

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Old 03-26-2001, 10:46 AM   #7
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I have to admit that I will probably succumb to the WRX in a few years. For approximately $3,500 - $4,000 more than a new SC2 I can get a car with nearly twice the power, great handling, great seats, AWD, and an actual aftermarket following. My brother (with a SW2) test drove one and is also very tempted. In Japan, the STi version comes with a better suspension and 280hp for another $3k over a base WRX. Yeah, very tempting for Saturn motorheads who have had to deal with almost no aftermarket support. An interesting thing about all of this is that Subaru is basically GM owned. Doesn't GM have a 49 or 52% share of Subaru's ownership? Are they the controlling interest at Subaru? Oh and a final word on the WRX here in Minnesota, at least: There is already a year wait on them from time of order to the time you recieve.

Alex Plaster
97 SC2

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Old 03-26-2001, 11:12 AM   #8
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Yeah, there is a wait, because for 23,000 you can get a car that is HIGH performance. This thing will blow the wheels off of anything in its class, preludes, eclipses, civic si's. This car should even be able to run with some of the $40,000 performance cars. No suprise here. Why is it that we know performance can sell a car, but so many auto execs just do not think so? The people at the top must just be old dinosaurs.

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Old 03-26-2001, 11:27 AM   #9
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Is the WRX the production rally type car that I saw advertised on TV this last weekend? If so, it looked quite impressive.

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Old 03-26-2001, 11:54 AM   #10
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Yes, Spork, it's been in a commercial that's been aired all weekend. The WRX is also the cover story of Sport Compact Car magazine's March 2001 issue.

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Old 03-26-2001, 01:11 PM   #11
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That cas is bad *****!!! Looks awesome, andthere wss a nice write up about it in this months C & D.

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Old 03-26-2001, 01:24 PM   #12
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<blockquote><hr>An interesting thing about all of this is that Subaru is basically GM owned. Doesn't GM have a 49 or 52% share of Subaru's ownership? Are they the controlling interest at Subaru?<hr></blockquote>

Unless things have changed, I believe GM has a 20% stake in Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru's parent). As I understand it, it takes 34% in Japan to give a controlling interest. GM does have access, I believe to Subaru technology.

the HumpMan

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Old 03-26-2001, 06:14 PM   #13
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2006 ION-3 Sedan
2006 ION-3 Sedan
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no

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Old 03-26-2001, 06:35 PM   #14
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My brothers friend works for a Subaru dealer and he is taken my bro on a test drive this week. He is also flyin out to AZ to test drive it on a close track, so I cannot wait to here about it and how it handles. This kid owned the previous version Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS and that thing flew. My brother currently has 2000 Jetta with the 1.8T. I fantastic engine that we actually destroyed a ford probe GT and beat out a Vtec by 3 car lengths down the street!

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Old 03-26-2001, 06:43 PM   #15
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You guys can have your 24k heavy ***** Subuaru. I'll take my soon to be Suburu WRX ***** kicking SC3. Just exactly which parts does it have that the Saturn aftermarket doesn't presently. I bet I could give an example of almost any part also for Saturn. There just are not yet 5-6 different types of each yet. Yet! There will be though. GM President of North American Operations said that Saturn and Pontiac would get new sports cars to replace the soon to be extinct F-Body. Cheer! Oh, and by the way my 17k 2001 Yellow SC2, 15k after GMS with add ons will come in 7k cheaper and faster!
Dayle

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Old 03-26-2001, 06:57 PM   #16
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<blockquote><hr>Just exactly which parts does it have that the Saturn aftermarket doesn't presently. I bet I could give an example of almost any part also for Saturn. <hr></blockquote>
Dayle, can you put in an AWD system <i>reliably</i> on a SC2? And adding up all the aftermarket equipment (11" rotors on all four corners, intercooled turbo, functional hood scoops, cd changer, etc...) to the SC2 to be comprable to the WRX, how much over $24 will it cost?

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Old 03-26-2001, 09:50 PM   #17
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Well considering that I do not have, and never will have a GM discount, the point is mute for me. Now, if I were to buy an SC2 new(around 18,000, with all the stuff I want) and then put in say, suspension upgrades, exhaust, turbo/super, other engine mods, the price would come out over $25,000. So unless saturn sells their own performance car, I may go for the WRX after graduation. ALthough I do like the idea of a LS2 with turbo mod. I will have to see what is available in a year.

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Old 03-26-2001, 10:35 PM   #18
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Ok Dayle, I'll accept your bet. You work up (in reality based terms, not some pipedream) the cost of the modifications required to have a Saturn match the offerings of a WRX that could be bought out of the box from a dealer. I'll even be generous and let you do it with the S series sedan of your choice. This will provide you a lower base price to use as a starting point. Now don't forget to include the cost of labor. This is a turn key challenge.

Let's see now, you will have to have some pretty good sized brakes and disc at all corners while you're at it. You will need quicker steering, larger diameter wheels and tires (wider too), better damping, a lot more power, limited slip rear differential, locking center differential and all wheel drive. Then you need to make sure that you have all of the interior bells and whistles too. In dash CD changer, power windows and locks, cruise and such.

I look forward to your offering........

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Old 03-26-2001, 11:41 PM   #19
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First off the SCx kills the Suburu WRX in styling in any color. Even more so in Chrome Yellow. Lets not compare uneccessary items for one. At
We will start at 17k for mine in Yellow with no discount. A major advantage is my SC2 weighs only 2395lbs. That means my brakes won't need
to be as big and neither will my turbo either. I could get all wheel drive but would never buy a car with that heavy ***** *****. I would just
go with front or rear wheel drive. I would buy a set of coilovers. I would also get the stainless steel brake company 11-13" rotors. I
forgot how big they are. It is my guess that I could get a better skidpad, 0-60, 1/4 mile, and braking with these mods for less than $24k.
I am getting all that by the way here over the next year and will tell ya what it cost me. My guess is 13 second quarter not what about 15
seconds even for WRX. I bet I will handle better and brake sooner. Who needs all wheel or limited slip if I can kick its' azz with out it.
Do you guys know the prices of some of the things I mentioned, I forgot. Getting the same parts the WRX would make it vastly outperform it
in every category being that it weighs about 1k lbs less. It might cost a little more, but way better. It would cost less for same
performance if got less costly items with the less weight that performed just as well. I will take a 350HP SC3 over almost any car any day.
That's just my opinion though. No offense, but I think the WRX and Integra are ugly as hell. I like the look of the Celica, but we all
know about the phony 180HP it claims we can get out of it. I look forward to spanking WRX's, Type R's, Pony Cars, Boxsters, Celica GTR's,
turbo Eclipses, Eclipse GSR's, Civic Si's, Mr2's turbo or not, Miatas, and a whole bunch more. Grin. I will get a turob and have that
power for under 20k even without my GMS discount laugh. Next up after I finish my daily driver is my 2002 project. Old school SC1 that
is stripped to 1700lbs or less and a supercharger for times in oh maybe Viper/Turbo Porsche killing 10's. Who know I might be the first
Saturn in the 9's. Well that is with my dad driving since he's the pro drag racer. Grin. I can't wait. Have fun in your WRX's. I am
sure they are fun. No hard feelings ok. I am just a Saturnfan through and through. I do hope Saturn gets their act together and comes
out with a turbo 2.0L from the Opel Astra. That alone would give an SC2 a 0-60 of about 6 flat. Just think the Type R has no torque and it
can get 6.3-6.5 seconds? The same horses and equal torque with good tires might break into the 5's.
Dayle

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Old 03-26-2001, 11:44 PM   #20
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Oh yeah I almost forgot. I'd like to see you guys actually get one for 24k. Dealers are going to add 2-3k faster than you can say
WRX. The car is over hyped while being a very good car. Saturns are on the other hand vastly under hyped, but I am working on that.
Dayle

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