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Old 07-01-2003, 01:42 PM   #1
tcams76
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Default No rear disc brakes on Redline

How will the new VUE Redline be taken seriously in the auto press without all around disc brakes. I see it has a major marketing blunder; Car and Driver will have a field day.
source: Saturn assistance center 1-800-522-5000


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Old 07-01-2003, 01:57 PM   #2
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While disk in the rear would be nice its not really needed on the VUE. There are several SUVs on the market that cost thousands more and utilize drums on the rear. The Isuzu Axium comes to mind and I think the small Range Rover has drums.

For what its worth my VUE stops as good as my GTi so whats all the hub bub? Most one ton (or greater) trucks have drums on the rear.

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Old 07-01-2003, 02:07 PM   #3
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Here's a copy/paste of a response I posted earlier todayin another thread

"People like to knock the rear drum brakes on the VUE, but if you read a lot of reviews you'll see that the VUE has top notch braking characteristics when compared to other small/mid size SUV's, even those with 4-wheel disc brakes. I would like discs in the rear simply for easier do it yourself maintenance, but you can't knock the performance of the front disc,rear drummed VUE."

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Old 07-01-2003, 02:28 PM   #4
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Yes, those are all good points, but one needs to stop as fast as one goes. Rear drum maybe fine for 181hp, however 250 hp is a whole-other- level. That's a 38 percent increase in power..........I see it as a safety issue.

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Old 07-01-2003, 02:31 PM   #5
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OK... I may have spoken too soon. The VUE rates middle of the pack in terms of braking distance, but is very comparable to those with 4 wheel discs... ie) Santa Fe.
I find it interesting the the VUE has the same braking distance as the VW New Beetle.

From Consumer Reports...

Braking (dry pavement, measured in feet)...

Saturn VUE 138
Hyundai Santa Fe 137
Ford Escape 130
Land Rover Freelander 127
Toyota RAV4 132
Kia Sorrento 144
Nissan XTerra 148
Buick Rendexvous 142
Jeep Liberty 139
Honda CR-V 135
Honda Element 134

Ford Excursion 166
Chevy Corvette 121
Honda S2000 117
Volkswagen Beetle 138

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Old 07-01-2003, 02:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by tcams76
Yes, those are all good points, but one needs to stop as fast as one goes. Rear drum maybe fine for 181hp, however 250 hp is a whole-other- level. That's a 38 percent increase in power..........I see it as a safety issue.
I fail to see your point here... what does engine output have to do with brake performance? In terms of safety, yes discs are safer than drums in terms of brake fade, but I have never had a problem with brake fade in a rear drum vehicle.

Now, my 68 Buick, that's another story. drums all around and no power brake booster... that thing is a bear to bring to a stop after the brakes are heated up a bit!

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Old 07-01-2003, 02:51 PM   #7
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You increase brake performance along with horsepower performance.

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Old 07-01-2003, 05:12 PM   #8
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The Stopping power is decent on VUE, is it because it's Lighter compare to other same class SUVs?

I agree with tcams76. A car should stop as fast as it goes.

But is that ture even the VUE RL still has DRUMS at the back? I heard the '04 L-series will have rear discs standard except the base-trim. Look like Saturn won't do the same to VUE.

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Old 07-01-2003, 06:25 PM   #9
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Maybe if enough of us call the bean- counters will reconsider.

Some voicing that it doesn't matter probably wouldn't be in the market for such a vehicle anyway.

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Old 07-01-2003, 07:15 PM   #10
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I have no need for disc brakes, and I really work my brakes out. I heard from a GM engineer that I was shuttling to a plant last week that GM is killing the rear discs on the redesigned full size trucks in a few years because the current ones are problematic.
~D.J.~

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2008 smart fortwo Passion Coupe 8/28/2008 - 3/12/2012
2002 VUE FWD4m - Gone but not forgotten. 5/14/2002 - 10/31/2011

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Old 07-02-2003, 02:01 AM   #11
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My vue has all around disc brakes, but its a 1/24 scale model..... if you look at the autoart diecast vue, it has disc brakes in the back, one of the flaws i found on the their model....

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Old 07-02-2003, 09:45 AM   #12
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GM has some hefty pension liabilities and just floated a multi billion $$ bond issue. Look for more decontenting from GM and Ford to pay for this.

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Old 07-02-2003, 10:31 AM   #13
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I think what Tcams is trying to say is that the Vue will have a pretty high top speed, and need decent brakes to slow 'er down!

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1-Bubble Blowing Lawn Mower

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Old 07-02-2003, 02:53 PM   #14
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Has anyone tried or considered finding performance aftermarket brakes? Stoptech, etc.? And excuse my ignorance, but how difficult (or possible, or $$$) would it be to switch to rear disc brakes?

Granted I'd like to stop on a dime, so I was considering trying to find a "Big Brake" kit for the vue... (i.e. stoptech)

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The 1st sold, 49th built

2007 RL VUE FWD Black *Born 01/26/07* 100k
mods: 4 wheel disc brakes, window tint, spoiler, blues and twos

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Old 07-02-2003, 02:53 PM   #15
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The top speed of the new VUE will be controlled as it is in the current model, although it may be set up a notch, but that's speculation. Rear disc brakes are a marketing angle in the first place and are not needed anyway, because 90% of braking power is on the front wheels. All you need on the rear is enough brake to lock the wheel, and that doesn't take much of a brake. You can't transfer braking power to the rear by using disc brakes or larger brakes - once the wheel locks, any reserve braking power is not used. With ABS, the rear brakes will contribute a little more to the overall braking effort because they won't lock. Having 4-wheel ABS is quite a luxury and comes in very handy on slick surfaces. On dry pavement, all you would theoretically need is rear-wheel ABS, and some pick-up trucks used to come that way (maybe still do). Rear disc brakes are needed on high-performance and race cars because of higher braking performance in prolonged severe use (better heat dissipation). There is one significant application for 4-wheel disc brakes on an SUV, and that would be for towing. In towing, enough weight is added to the rear that the rear brakes have a significant effect on overall braking. I would definitely feel better with a heavy trailer pushing me down a mountain with 4-wheel discs.

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Old 07-02-2003, 06:48 PM   #16
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Default brakes

I just don't see the logic of going to all the trouble of a VUE Redline and then stopping at the rear brakes.
Fifty series tires with drum brakes......makes a lot of sense, not.
Am I missing something?

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Old 07-03-2003, 01:41 PM   #17
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Well, there's no doubt that rear discs look great. Heck, I tried out a Hyundai small wagon one time that had rear discs. Brand new, on the dealer's lot, and something was messed up in the right rear brake - raised Cain going down the road. I certainly see the point that a 'performance' vehicle just seems to require them. Maybe they'll have an option. I've had many performance cars over the years, and I find the 3.0L V6 VUE with 5-speed auto and ABS to be a very competent road machine. I'm not thrilled with the idea of the big Honda engine and 18" wheels and a lowered suspension - the thing's an SUV for goodness sake. I'm glad I got the small 6 - I hope they continue to offer it as an option.

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Old 07-04-2003, 11:34 AM   #18
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Looks likes 181hp wil not carry-over;and 50 series tires sounds like a pounding ride to me. The new Nissan Murano use 65 series tires with their 18" wheels.

For Release: July 1, 2003

SATURN VUE | Model Lineup

Engines Transmissions
Ecotec 2.2
L I-4 3.5L V-6 5-spd man
(MG3 Getrag F23) VTi auto
(M75 FWD)
(M16 AWD) 5-spd auto
MJ7 (FWD)
MJ8 (AWD)
VUE 4-Cyl FWD s - s o -
VUE 4-Cyl AWD s - - s -
VUE 6-Cyl FWD - s - - s
VUE 6-Cyl AWD - s - - s
VUE Red Line (FWD or AWD) - s - - s

source: GM pr

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Old 07-05-2003, 11:10 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by tcams76
Looks likes 181hp wil not carry-over;and 50 series tires sounds like a pounding ride to me. The new Nissan Murano use 65 series tires with their 18" wheels.

Actually there is hardly a difference in ride, I am almost willing to bet you couldn’t feel the difference over the P235/65SR that came on the VUE as OEM. As far as carrying over the smaller V6 that just makes no sense at all. The Honda V6 makes all that power and weighs the same and the mileage is very similar. I only wish they offered a 5 or 6 speed manual with it.

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Old 07-05-2003, 01:07 PM   #20
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I was referring to the Nissan Murano with 235/65 18" wheels as standard.
Time will tell, but I think we will feel a difference between 235/65-16, and 245/50-18's. Sure on a smooth surface forty-series tires ride okay.
I was running 235/45-17 on my Lexus coupe and changed to 225/50-17 and the ride was noticeably improved. I live in a large city and the roads are in rough shape.
I had to learn the hard way that if you hit a bump without much tire sidewall the wheel is going to take most of the punishment.
I feel sorry all the folks being snowed into purchasing all of these ultra-low profile tires, most USA roads are not up to the task.

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