SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series General
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-16-2020, 03:28 AM   #1
Gerheardt
Member
Gerheardt is on a distinguished road
 
Gerheardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Saint-Georges de Beauce, Québec, Canada
Posts: 52
 

1995 SL2
Default Here's a mysterious trouble...

I have a 1995 Saturn SL2 (1.9 Dohc 16 valves) with an automatic 4 speed transmission. The car has 306 000kms (190 000miles). It has been incredibly well maintained by the 2 first owners and myself (who bought it in winter 2017). I live in Québec province, Canada, so you'll have a better idea of the terrible climate. My mechanics haven't found what it could be, so here's the replaced parts, tests and maintenance done, symptoms and all:

Symptoms:

-In summer, the car is hard to start. It cranks kinda long before starting and even idle rough for few seconds. If the car started in the same day, it will start fine later the same day, even if the engine is not warm anymore. If i parked it after work, the day after, it will start with difficulty.
-In winter, i barely touch the key that the car starts and idles perfectly. The colder the temperature, the better it goes to start it, and the opposite weather gives the opposite reaction.
-In winter, sometimes it dies at a stop and it's hard to start it again, even if the first start was immediate.

Other facts:

-The engine temperature never reached higher than half the gauge in the warmest days of the year. In fact, it usually stays near 1/4 warmed (4/4 being the redzone and 2/4 being the usual reading we see in other cars). In winter, the needle barely moves from C. I still have warmth from the heater and it happens kinda fast, even at -30 celsius and worse. Thermostat is new, both temperature sensors are new, wiring looks fine, coolant (Dex Cool) was changed before i bought it. Coolant has no acidity and has a nice color. The level of coolant never lowered in 60 000kms (37 000miles). I suspect the gauge to be crazy.
-In winter 2017 to 2018, i had a check engine. The code was concerning the EGR valve. It happened 3 or 4 times, only in the most extreme colds. The check engine disappeared quickly as soon as the temperature was less cold. I cleaned the EGR in summer 2018 and in winter 2018 to 2019, it never lighted again.
-I always use premium fuel. After 30 cars, to each one i made the same tests, i always had good results in terms of performance and fuel efficiency with supreme so i kept using it. I also paid it the price of regular, i worked in a gas station.
-The spark plugs are not that old and i used iridium ones for a longer lifespan. It didn't changed the symptoms of the problem.
-Spark plug wires are not that old and it changed nothing to the symptoms.
-Intake gasket has been tested for leaks while spraying something that would make the engine go crazy if it inhaled it. The gasket is fine.
-Compression of the engine was simply perfect, 190-190-190-190
-The engine burns only a small amount of oil per oil change, like half a pint for 5000 kms (3100miles)
-Air filter is clean, the gas tank is in plastic so there is probably no rust particles in it and the gas filter is freshly changed.
-I never had any check engine but the EGR code or another one that was related to an oxydized ground for the transmission shifter position sensor (fixed since long ago)
-Check engine light is off but lights when the key is on "ON" position, just like it should, so it's not burnt.
-While the exhaust was leaking a lot near the flexible part, we inspected the catalytic converter and it's not clogged at all.
-Interior of the intake itself or its tubing and filter box were clean.
-I used injector cleaner many times without any change.


The car is stored for winter, but i'd like to know what to inspect/change/repair as soon as it goes out of the snow bank. Any ideas of what could cause that odd problem? My mechanics don't know, my mechanic friends are clueless or not caring since it's not a Toyota and i asked many guys online, without anything helping. I don't know why i haven't asked for it in here yet, but here it is!

...
1995 Automatic Saturn SL2
2003 Manual Suzuki Grand Vitara
2016 Manual Hyundai Accent

Last edited by Gerheardt; 02-16-2020 at 03:41 AM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Gerheardt's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Gerheardt reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Gerheardt is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 02-16-2020, 04:34 AM   #2
onlinebiker
Advanced Member
onlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: sw michigan
Posts: 994
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

First thing to come to mind is a fuel pump on it's way out.


Your temp gauge is performing exactly right.

The 95 is the first year 2nd gen temp 7gauge. The quality control on these from the factory is stellar. They all read the same. Just like yours - at full operating temp the needle will be above 1/4 and under 1/2. About 1/3 the way up from 1/4.

If it reads something else - it's probably the thermostat - or less frequently the sending unit. (ECT).

...
92 SC2
93 SC2
96 SC2
97 SL2
97 SC2
99 SC2
01 SC2 x 2 yellow
02 SC2
02 SL2
parts
2 94 SC2 parted out
2 96 SC2
98 SC2 - rusty frame minus engine.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to onlinebiker's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help onlinebiker reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
onlinebiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2020, 06:35 AM   #3
Gerheardt
Member
Gerheardt is on a distinguished road
 
Gerheardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Saint-Georges de Beauce, Québec, Canada
Posts: 52
 

1995 SL2
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

Ok, now i'm feeling more trusty towards that gauge, even if it doesn't explain my problem. So maybe the fuel pump... many people mentionned that, it will certainly be in my first tests/repairs i'll do. I'll wait for other suggestions too.

So if it went to half on a very warm day, during a drag strip day, waiting in line for long minutes for a new pull, is it overheating or fine?

On that pic, the usual temperature shown. It went near half on that drag strip day and i kinda panicked when it happened, activating the heater inside at full speed and at the warmest setting. Damn, i almost suffocated in there, hehe!


...
1995 Automatic Saturn SL2
2003 Manual Suzuki Grand Vitara
2016 Manual Hyundai Accent

Last edited by Gerheardt; 02-16-2020 at 06:44 AM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Gerheardt's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Gerheardt reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Gerheardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2020, 09:35 AM   #4
toggenburg
Master Member
toggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud of
 
toggenburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains of Bedford, Virginia. Born once? Die twice. ------ Born twice? Die once.
Posts: 3,248

2001 SL1
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

The only concern about the temp gauge is if it goes into the RED zone and the radiator fans don't come on to bring the temp back down. If the needle sits on the halfway point or above, don't worry about it at all, you are NOT overheating at all.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to toggenburg's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help toggenburg reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
toggenburg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2020, 12:14 PM   #5
fetchitfido
Super Member
fetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant future
 
fetchitfido's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 14,453
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

I'd have replaced the ECTS months ago, based on those temp related symptoms alone.

'91-'95 have 2 engine temp sensors, one for the PCM that controls the engine and one for the temp gauge. $10-$15 part, takes 5 minutes to change, don't use 1/2" drive socket & ratchet as the job will turn into an all weekend job.


'95's should be running around the 1/2 mark anyway, but it's not overheating until the red marks (fan on temp '91-'02 is 222f, they just changed how low on the gauge 222f is).

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fetchitfido's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fetchitfido reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fetchitfido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2020, 05:20 PM   #6
toggenburg
Master Member
toggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud of
 
toggenburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains of Bedford, Virginia. Born once? Die twice. ------ Born twice? Die once.
Posts: 3,248

2001 SL1
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

^^ OP had said,
"Thermostat is new, both temperature sensors are new, wiring looks fine".

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to toggenburg's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help toggenburg reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
toggenburg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2020, 08:01 PM   #7
Gerheardt
Member
Gerheardt is on a distinguished road
 
Gerheardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Saint-Georges de Beauce, Québec, Canada
Posts: 52
 

1995 SL2
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by toggenburg View Post
^^ OP had said,
"Thermostat is new, both temperature sensors are new, wiring looks fine".
Thank you for reading everything and quoting!


Any other suggestion than fuel pump? It's actually really cheap, i'll just change it to try if it works, or as a preventive maintenance.

Anything i should consider testing/changing for my real problem, not the temp gauge problem that isn't one?

...
1995 Automatic Saturn SL2
2003 Manual Suzuki Grand Vitara
2016 Manual Hyundai Accent

Last edited by Gerheardt; 02-16-2020 at 08:10 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Gerheardt's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Gerheardt reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Gerheardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2020, 08:14 PM   #8
fetchitfido
Super Member
fetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant future
 
fetchitfido's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 14,453
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

I'd still have replaced it again, sounds rather like you were sold the wrong one(s) (when I had S-Series I always had a bunch of known good ECTS's in my toolbox so I wouldn't have bought anything...).

I wonder how much effect the IATS has on engine running during starting and immediately afterward. Rare for the sensor to fail there, but if the PCM thinks the air temp is wildly different than actual it'll under fuel or over fuel similar to a carburator's choke being set wrong. Same part number as the 2-wire ECTS.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fetchitfido's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fetchitfido reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fetchitfido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 03:14 AM   #9
Gerheardt
Member
Gerheardt is on a distinguished road
 
Gerheardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Saint-Georges de Beauce, Québec, Canada
Posts: 52
 

1995 SL2
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
I'd still have replaced it again, sounds rather like you were sold the wrong one(s) (when I had S-Series I always had a bunch of known good ECTS's in my toolbox so I wouldn't have bought anything...).
You mean the 2 coolant temp sensors? It has been changed many many times before me too, as i seen in the old receipts... Jobber parts, oem parts and same parts as me (upper quality jobber). I trust the sensors. Gauge apart, i have no symptoms of the engine not warming enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
I wonder how much effect the IATS has on engine running during starting and immediately afterward. Rare for the sensor to fail there, but if the PCM thinks the air temp is wildly different than actual it'll under fuel or over fuel similar to a carburator's choke being set wrong. Same part number as the 2-wire ECTS.
You mean that other sensor located where the air filter box takes its air? I could try to change it, yep. Why not, it's a 3$ part. I'll try that. Unless we're not speaking about the same sensor? I may have a bad memory, but as i recall, it's the same kind of sensor and plug, yes, but it's a 1 wire i have there. I'll have to take a look while changing the part.

...
1995 Automatic Saturn SL2
2003 Manual Suzuki Grand Vitara
2016 Manual Hyundai Accent

Last edited by Gerheardt; 02-17-2020 at 03:23 AM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Gerheardt's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Gerheardt reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Gerheardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 08:59 AM   #10
Highmile
Senior Member
Highmile will become famous soon enoughHighmile will become famous soon enough
 
Highmile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: St. Louis, Mo.
Posts: 1,208

1995 SL1
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlinebiker View Post

The 95 is the first year 2nd gen temp 7gauge. The quality control on these from the factory is stellar. They all read the same. Just like yours - at full operating temp the needle will be above 1/4 and under 1/2. About 1/3 the way up from 1/4.
(ECT).
Actually 1996 was the first year for the recalibrated temp gauge. The 95's should run about a needle width below the 1/2 mark.

I'd be suspect of the gauge but just because the thermostat is new doesn't mean it is good. The only way to know for sure is to check the temp with a gage that reads in degrees and not cold or hot. Factory thermostat is 188 degrees F. Some of the aftermarket units run 192.

I would also drop the iridium plugs for the NGK copper plugs. The reviews on the iridium is mixed however the ign system was not designed for them.

Highmile
'95 SL1 702k and counting

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Highmile's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Highmile reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Highmile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 11:08 AM   #11
fetchitfido
Super Member
fetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant future
 
fetchitfido's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 14,453
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerheardt View Post
You mean that other sensor located where the air filter box takes its air? I could try to change it, yep. Why not, it's a 3$ part. I'll try that. Unless we're not speaking about the same sensor? I may have a bad memory, but as i recall, it's the same kind of sensor and plug, yes, but it's a 1 wire i have there. I'll have to take a look while changing the part.
The IATS, ECTS (2-wire), and TTS (auto Trans Temp Sensor) are all the same part. If you have a 1-wire sensor in place of the IATS then that'll be your problem. The only place the 1-wire sensor belongs is the head and only to run the temp gauge for '91-'95's.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fetchitfido's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fetchitfido reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fetchitfido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 12:45 PM   #12
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,606
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

When in doubt about the temperature gauge, t-stat and (two wire) engine coolant sensor, one way to determine cooling system temperatures would be using a OBD II reader to display actual temps the pcm sees from the sensor. Unfortunately, '95s are OBD I without the ability to use a OBD I reader. An equally useful tool to measure cooling system temps would be hand held infrared probe or placing a thermometer into the coolant container (hot coolant returning from the heater core empties into the coolant tank continuously). The hand held temperature probe with a red laser spotlight aimed at the t-stat housing is accurate enough. Temps above 185F/85C would imply t-stat operating within specs.

If the t-stat, two wire temperature sensor and connector are ok, hard starting may be fuel related. Be sure the two wire sensor connector terminals are clean and free of corrosion. If terminals are corroded from a damaged sensor leaking coolant, the terminals can become electrically resistant to the low operating voltage, creating a high resistance circuit. Whether sensor or connection fault, high resistance is interpreted by the pcm as a very cold engine with the pcm responding with more fuel than required. For starting, excessive fuel mixtures can prevent startup by drowning plugs and shorting high voltage to ground. Flooding the engine is another issue. If a flooded engine is suspected, the quickest way to remedy this would be holding throttle wide open during the next startup. During starting with wide open throttle, the pcm sees this (throttle positron sensor) and runs a clear flood mode procedure by disabling injector operation. As the engine cranks, more air is ingested to help dry out wet plugs, excess fuel is blown out into the exhaust system and spark returns to ignite the remaining fuel - sputtering startup. All by simply holding throttle wide open/pedal floored until the engine fires up. If the engine doesn't startup then it wasn't flooded.

With no specific mileage or time reference, fuel pumps and fuel pressure regulators can deteriorate or fail at any time. Using a fuel pressure gauge can help diagnose fuel issues by displayed actual pressures - at ignition on time and with engine idling.

...
VCX NANO

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 05:21 AM   #13
Gerheardt
Member
Gerheardt is on a distinguished road
 
Gerheardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Saint-Georges de Beauce, Québec, Canada
Posts: 52
 

1995 SL2
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

Ok, so i'll check for temperature with my spare cluster, to see if it's giving similar results. I will then try an external way to measure it, even if i doubt there is any problem with my engine temperature. I repeat, both coolant temp sensors AND THERMOSTAT have been changed MANY times with MANY variety of each part. Wiring was in good shape and clean, i still cleaned it inside the plugs just to be sure. I'm 90% certain my gauge is faulty and that engine temperature topic is nowhere related to my real problem. It warms up fine and in a normal timelapse. The gauge is just not aware...

About the fuel pressure, i thought i had to open a trap under the rear seat to gain access to the fuel tank pump, hoses and all, but i think i may be wrong. Before dropping the tank to change the pump, i'll obviously measure the pressure before.

I just verified the Intake Air Temperature Sensor, that thing just before the air filter box. It's a 2 wired plug, my memory was wrong! I'll try to change the sensor and clean the plug too, when weather will feel like not being a f?ck!ng @$$hole like it is 10 months per year in here.

About the spark plugs, the problem was there even before i changed them. I changed them BECAUSE i had this issue... lol. It was economy spark plugs, probably cupper without fine tip. I also read about the gas pedal and throttle... Yep, i forgot to mention, i always wait the chime to stop before actually try to start it. It primes the fuel system as i guess. The guy who sold me the car told me to do that. I also push on the gas pedal when it's hard to start, i even have to play a little with it sometimes for the car to idle ok.

Any other suggestion? I note all what you guys say, and will check out every single idea. It's been a while that i live with it, this year is the year i solve this problem!

...
1995 Automatic Saturn SL2
2003 Manual Suzuki Grand Vitara
2016 Manual Hyundai Accent

Last edited by Gerheardt; 02-18-2020 at 05:28 AM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Gerheardt's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Gerheardt reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Gerheardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 10:15 AM   #14
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,606
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

Pumping the gas pedal does absolutely nothing - no carburetor with fuel bowl to pump raw gas into the intake manifold. EFI systems use electronics to determine fuel mixtures with injectors pulsed for precision. Moving the gas pedal only varies the throttle position sensor, nothing else. Either leave the pedal alone for starting or if several starting attempts fails to get the engine started, floor it for wide open throttle. Wide open throttle during starting tells the pcm to disable injectors; more air ingested to help dry off wet spark plugs drowning spark, excess fuel expelled into the exhaust system. As plugs dry out, spark returns to ignite a leaner fuel/air mixture resulting in a sputtering startup, releasing pedal for a normal high idle warm-up.

Hard starting results from a combination of issues; flooding, low fuel pressure, worn out fuel pump, strangled fuel filter, worn out fuel pressure regulator, contaminated fuel fouling injectors, worn spark plugs, faulty ignition coils, low compression, etc. Plain copper plugs are recommended but they should be replaced every 30k to 50k miles.

No fuel tank access in the rear seat. The tank must be dropped.

...
VCX NANO

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2020, 02:59 AM   #15
Gerheardt
Member
Gerheardt is on a distinguished road
 
Gerheardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Saint-Georges de Beauce, Québec, Canada
Posts: 52
 

1995 SL2
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

Ok, so if it actually helps to play with the pedal for startring, it probably has to do with one of the reasons you named. I never had to floor it to see a difference, and i only start to play with it if the car is too long to start. I know it's not carburated

The more it goes, the more it looks like a tired fuel pump. I'll change it. I have to drop the tank? Oh, i'll check out if i can cut under the seat safely first. Creating some kind of removable cap is probably possible. Since i don't intend to get the car out in winter anymore, i doubt it could cause a problem unless the hoses are very very near. Better not play with fire, lol.

...
1995 Automatic Saturn SL2
2003 Manual Suzuki Grand Vitara
2016 Manual Hyundai Accent

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Gerheardt's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Gerheardt reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Gerheardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2020, 06:37 AM   #16
onlinebiker
Advanced Member
onlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: sw michigan
Posts: 994
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

The hole needed to allow you to remove the tank bung opening would be so large as to weaken the body structure.

The easiest way to drop the tank is on a lift.

If you don't have access to a lift - paying someone who does would be my plan.....

I no longer work on the ground.

At my.age - if I am on the ground - they make a button I can push for them to send people to set me upright....

You see these advertised on TV ..



...
92 SC2
93 SC2
96 SC2
97 SL2
97 SC2
99 SC2
01 SC2 x 2 yellow
02 SC2
02 SL2
parts
2 94 SC2 parted out
2 96 SC2
98 SC2 - rusty frame minus engine.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to onlinebiker's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help onlinebiker reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
onlinebiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 09:57 AM   #17
Signmaster
Master Member
Signmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 6,226
 

1995 SL1
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerheardt View Post
Ok, so i'll check for temperature with my spare cluster, to see if it's giving similar results. I will then try an external way to measure it, even if i doubt there is any problem with my engine temperature. I repeat, both coolant temp sensors AND THERMOSTAT have been changed MANY times with MANY variety of each part. Wiring was in good shape and clean, i still cleaned it inside the plugs just to be sure. I'm 90% certain my gauge is faulty and that engine temperature topic is nowhere related to my real problem. It warms up fine and in a normal timelapse. The gauge is just not aware...

About the fuel pressure, i thought i had to open a trap under the rear seat to gain access to the fuel tank pump, hoses and all, but i think i may be wrong. Before dropping the tank to change the pump, i'll obviously measure the pressure before.

I just verified the Intake Air Temperature Sensor, that thing just before the air filter box. It's a 2 wired plug, my memory was wrong! I'll try to change the sensor and clean the plug too, when weather will feel like not being a f?ck!ng @$$hole like it is 10 months per year in here.

About the spark plugs, the problem was there even before i changed them. I changed them BECAUSE i had this issue... lol. It was economy spark plugs, probably cupper without fine tip. I also read about the gas pedal and throttle... Yep, i forgot to mention, i always wait the chime to stop before actually try to start it. It primes the fuel system as i guess. The guy who sold me the car told me to do that. I also push on the gas pedal when it's hard to start, i even have to play a little with it sometimes for the car to idle ok.

Any other suggestion? I note all what you guys say, and will check out every single idea. It's been a while that i live with it, this year is the year i solve this problem!
Though I agree that your gauge reading seems low for a '95, I doubt it is anything to do with your starting problem. It might be worth looking into the gauge reading vs actual temp, but maybe you just got one that reads lower than most.

One thing not mentioned that I would possibly check is the MAP sensor. Since your problem is starting related heat (of the engine) shouldn't really have an impact related to the gauge, since most of the time starts are performed from a cold engine state. Since you've covered the basics, MAP and possibly checking for any indication of the throttle body butterfly being tampered with might be on my list. I think I would also check out the coils and connections to rule out any possible weak spark at start up.

Rough running without excess oil consumption indicates something weak in the system, and might possibly just be masked by the higher idle during cold weather starts.

And usually, the fuel pump should work just as well on a cold day as it would on a warm day. At least for initial cranking, both depend on simply supplying regular pressure without extra flow required for acceleration and such.

...
Alordofchaos is worthy and hides in shadows only to hone his S Series knowledge ninja skills. Swift, silent, trustworthy.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Signmaster's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Signmaster reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Signmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 09:15 AM   #18
macbox
Senior Member
macbox will become famous soon enough
 
macbox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,189
 

1995 SC2
1997 SC2
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

On the 95 SC2 I got after the demise of my wagon, it also stalled at stoplights. The culprit was the fuel pressure regulator. There was fuel leaking into the intake because the diaphragm in the FPR was perforated. Check the fuel pressure and see how fast it leaks down.

...
"The Twins"
#4, "Betty" 1995 SC2m, 163K, 400 Miles per quart. Garage queen. Currently in 1000 pieces for a rebuild.
#7 "Betsy" 1995 SC2, 131K, daily driver.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to macbox's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help macbox reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
macbox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 02:06 AM   #19
Gerheardt
Member
Gerheardt is on a distinguished road
 
Gerheardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Saint-Georges de Beauce, Québec, Canada
Posts: 52
 

1995 SL2
Default Re: Here's a mysterious trouble...

I know have many other things to check out, thank you guys for your suggestions!

I wish i could see them earlier, but sadly the forum is unstable. Can't wait for good weather to arrive so i could finally solve that problem!

...
1995 Automatic Saturn SL2
2003 Manual Suzuki Grand Vitara
2016 Manual Hyundai Accent

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Gerheardt's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Gerheardt reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Gerheardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mysterious RPM rev??!!?? beautifulbluvue Vue Tech 30 03-13-2009 09:18 PM
Mysterious crack Oliverjackson Vue General 19 05-23-2008 06:55 PM
mysterious pwr 01SC1blue S-Series General 11 11-04-2005 06:50 PM
mysterious gas mileage.. please help Garland Miscellaneous Tech 8 01-14-2002 01:09 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:55 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.