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Old 09-21-2019, 05:37 PM   #1
imaddicted2u
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2008 AURA XE
Default Note to self...don't fill the gas tank to the brim...

I heard gas was going up so I went to fill up. When the pump clicked off I tried to squeeze in enough to get up to the next full dollar.
Next day my Wife complained that the remote start wasn't working, I remembered, check engine light comes on, remote start quits working.
My scanner showed two ECM codes. P0449 - Evap vent solenoid control circuit and P0455 - Evap system large leak.
I thought it too coincidental that I would get the codes right after filling up. I noticed the faint smell of gas around the back of the car. My first guess was a loose gas cap. I cleaned up the sealing ring and put it on good and tight. I cleared the codes but next day P0455 returned. The scanner showed the tank to be 100.50% full. Went for a drive to bring the tank level down and so far the codes have not returned and the scanner readings of the parameters around the Evap system look normal. I'm pretty sure the charcoal canister got saturated with fuel from the too full tank. I hope I'm right, time will tell.
Some words of wisdom...
When the pump stops...you stop...

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Old 09-21-2019, 09:34 PM   #2
Sir Wagonsky
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2002 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Note to self...don't fill the gas tank to the brim...

There's guys here with the details, but when you round up, it still overflows. You just don't see it because it dumps into your evap system. And it don't like that.

When you top off, it's actually cheaper to pour that additional .38 cents on the ground.

Yep, When the pump stops...you stop...

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Last edited by Sir Wagonsky; 09-21-2019 at 09:39 PM..

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Old 09-21-2019, 10:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: Note to self...don't fill the gas tank to the brim...

Bein' a New Yawker, I'm accustomed to filling my tank and usually top off to the next whole dollar, paying cash. Once years ago, I forgot New Jersey does not allow customers to self pump gas when I stopped by a no name station before returning home. Back then NJ gas was always about 30 cents cheaper than NY gas so it paid to fill up. As I filled my tank, this station still had the lever stop to let go of the pump handle while locking the pump on. For whatever reason, I was distracted for a moment next to the pump when gas flowed out. The attendant saw it and quickly ran over and was upset. I apologized and my tank was full to the neck with more raw gas running down the side of the quarter panel. All safe, no cell phone in use and hardly anyone at this station and a nice warm day. Nothing ever occurred after that and I still pump up to the next whole dollar amount after the nozzle stops. No error codes have ever popped up because of topping off. The NJ incident was the only time I saw raw gasoline come out a full tank. Every tank I filled with the pump automatically stopping, slow feeding of gas until the next whole dollar amount usually results in putting in about close to a half gallon more of fuel. I use $2.35/gal and less than a dollar to fill up/round up. Even at one dollar, divided by 2.35 equals 0.4 gal of fuel. This never fills up to the filler neck. I've been doing this almost forever in several vehicles with zero issues.

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Old 09-22-2019, 07:12 PM   #4
imaddicted2u
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Default Re: Note to self...don't fill the gas tank to the brim...

This Tech gives a good explanation of the possible ills of overfilling the gas tank.
https://www.quora.com/How-does-overf...ine-in-general

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Old 09-23-2019, 11:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: Note to self...don't fill the gas tank to the brim...

Interesting read from a Ford tech. However, he did state the possibility of drawing liquid fuel into the fuel system evaporative control system. A conservative statement followed up with (my interpretations of) hypothetical theory. If he is describing those that actually top off by filling and seeing liquid gasoline at the fuel fill then he's probably correct. Personally, almost every gas station pump shuts off on calibrated sensors detecting the faintest hint of fuel vapor pressure to prevent anyone from spilling fuel whether in automatic mode with the lever holding the trigger for auto fillup or manual fill. My guess is industry safety brought us this safety measure to prevent pumps from running. Imagine, if you can, filing up a 1, 2, or 5 gallon gas can everyone uses for their lawnmower, garden tractor, chain saw, weed wacker etc. If you ever filled a portable gas can then you'd know how annoying it gets when the pump shuts off prematurely. The vapor pressures are detected to stop three pump from over filing and reach person learns to pull the trigger ever so slightly to continue filling small gas cans until they're full. I can't explain your issues and how you came to your conclusion because it's all hearsay no different from my personal experience with technically never actually topping off my tanks (done on several vehicles over the years) but simply adding fuel after the first automatic shutoff. Using only my example, I add fuel to the next whole dollar. As mentioned previously, quick calculations seem to show I'm adding no more than half a gallon to a full tank. I never fill up to the nozzle (with the one exception). I have a sloped driveway so it's always on my mind never to fill any tank where fuel can spill from topping off. Even with adding fuel after the first shutoff, adding less than a half gallon has never leaked, created any pressures, gave off gas fumes or error codes. I'm not suggesting anyone to follow my example with trouble free fuel fillups but adding another half gallon/rounding up to the next whole dollar after the first auto shutoff shouldn't cause any issues.

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Old 09-24-2019, 04:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Note to self...don't fill the gas tank to the brim...

LOL, I thought I created the slogan...when the pump stops, you stop...but no...this guy did...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtIyzeR9eno

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Old 09-24-2019, 05:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: Note to self...don't fill the gas tank to the brim...

With the EVAP/Gas tank systems being a closed system the only way for air to enter or escape from the tank during filling or expansion/contraction from temperature changes is through the charcoal canister and normally open vent valve. The purpose of the charcoal canister is to capture and contain evaporated fuel vapors so they can be sucked into the engine and burned on the next drive cycle. The vent valve filter is usually mounted on the end of a hose high up on the filler pipe just below the gas cap. So, in the event of a gross overfilling, by the time the fuel flows out of the filler neck, the charcoal canister would be full of liquid fuel instead of just fuel vapor. Even a minor overfilling could put some raw fuel into the canister. This is also why fuel leaks are not evident in the event of overfilling. In this condition the EVAP leak test might not pass because the fuel in the charcoal canister won't allow the vacuum from the purge solenoid to reach the fuel tank pressure sensor so the ECM throws a code and lights the check engine light and fails the EVAP monitor leak test. Once the raw fuel is eventually sucked through the purge valve and burned off by the engine, the vacuum is once again able to get to the pressure sensor in the tank the CEL will be turned off by the ECM after the leak test passes a certain number of times. Hopefully the charcoal beads have not been destroyed and will eventually be dried out by the air flowing through the purge valve so it can capture fuel vapors again.
This is why " Fuel saturated vapor canister" is one possible cause of the P0449 code.
https://www.autocodes.com/p0449_gmc.html
Attached Images
File Type: gif gm-evap01.gif (7.8 KB, 1 views)

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Old 09-24-2019, 08:27 PM   #8
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Default Re: Note to self...don't fill the gas tank to the brim...

By all means, follow advice given from knowledgeable sources. I stand by my method, never overfilling my tank but add about close to a half gallon that equates to adding less than a dollar of fuel. This isn't overfilling and I've been doing this for years without one error code related to the evap system and overfilling. My present car is filled this way since I bought it back in '05.

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