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Old 09-20-2009, 07:37 AM   #1
ChiChi01
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Default Engine not starting, cranks, but that is all

I have been following your forum for awhile, but now I am in need of help. My 2003 l300 starts to crank, but will not start. I have checked all of the fuses. Checked the Schrader valve, seems as if it has a pretty good spray. The fuel pump seems kinda intermittent tho. I bought the fuel pump and a new filter. But had trouble trying to syphon out the fuel tank due to the anti syphon device, any tricks to this? Thanks to anyone who can help out with this, Linda

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Old 09-20-2009, 08:23 AM   #2
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Engine not starting, cranks, but that is all

Linda,

There are several high failure items that are reasons the V6's don't start, fuel pump being one. Are you getting the Check Engine light? If so, get the codes read (since the car won't start, you'll have to find someone who can bring a code reader over). Other high failure items are the Crank Position Sensor (CPS) next to the oil filter and the on plug ignition modules, but ignition modules usually fail one at a time, so you get a single bank failure, not both banks.
alternately for getting the fuel out of the tank is to remove the fuel filter, hook a hose up to the steel pipe coming from the tank and pump out with a drill driven pump. You can get a hose past the anti-siphon device, just need a smaller diameter hose, not a garden hose.

Keep us posted on your progress.

...
Jerry N

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies."

Groucho Marx

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Old 09-20-2009, 11:47 AM   #3
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Default Re: Engine not starting, cranks, but that is all

As s3nfo mentions, the cps is a known failure item to keep in mind and in our cars, more difficult to troubleshoot and isolate. However, you had the presence of mind to check fuel pressure and that's at least half the troubleshooting, differentiating between a fuel or ignition issue. Having a nice spray essentially killed two issues - fuel pressure and pump simultaneously. The fuel pump will only run for 2-3 seconds when the ignition key is turned to the ON/RUN position and shut off (for safety). You will never hear or feel the pump running when the engine is OFF. This is a safety issue that all vehicle manufacturers are aware of and designed our fuel pumps accordingly with no issues of reliabilty or failures in this respect. The only other time the fuel pump will run is when the engine is running (DOH!). Cycling the ignition key ON and listening for the faint hum/hiss of the fuel pump and then pressing the fuel test valve for a healthy spray of fuel will verify an operating fuel pump pressurizing the fuel lines properly. With the fuel system out of the way, leaves the ignition system to troubelshoot. Our 3.0L V6 engines are more difficult to troubleshoot ignition issues.

As mentioned, the crank position snesor (CPS) seems to be one weak point on some models and is easily tested indirectly with cars using spark plug wires but ours don't have them, making testing difficult. By eliminating the fuel pump and fuel pressure from this picture allows some narrowing down of the problem to the ignition system; the cps, ECM, fuel injectors, and ignition coil packs (one pack over each cylinder bank). The cps is the crucial component to the entire fuel injection system; it turns on the engine control module (ECM) that runs the fuel pump, ignition system for spark, and pulse the injector. No cps output = no fuel pump, no ignition/spark, and no injector pulses, a DEAD engine. The engine can crank over all day until the battery or starter burns out but it will never fire up. The ecm, fuel pump, and injectors are high reliability items but cps' don't seem to measure up in comparison. At least from all the posts here and there are many Saturnfans that generate these basic statistics.

Another way to isolate the cps, provided it failed completely, would be to measure its electrical resistance with a multimeter; it should read approximatley 700-1200 ohms but if read as an open circuit, replace it immediately. The intermittent cps failure, which doesn't fit your symptoms, will have a resistance reading one moment and fail the next. This would be the case for a car that runs and then randomly dies, waiting for the engine to cool off before starting and running again only to die somewhere else!? Very frustrating but an intermittent cps failure nonetheless. Hope this helps.

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Old 09-20-2009, 07:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: Engine not starting, cranks, but that is all

Hi Guys!!! I fixed it with the CPS!!! Thank you soooooo much!!! I just got laid off and thought for sure that this was going to run into some major money, I was actually prepared to attempt the fuel pump. Pretty amazing what a single Mom will do to make things work. God bless all of you who take the time out to help a stranger. I am so grateful and a bit dirty, again....Thank You!
Linda

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Old 09-20-2009, 07:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: Engine not starting, cranks, but that is all

You go Mom!?

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Old 04-11-2010, 08:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: Engine not starting, cranks, but that is all

I'm having the same problem and was told that it was the ECM because it was not communicating with the scanner. I ran errands and when I went back to start the car, it wouldn't turn over and my gas gauge showed empty. I checked and I had gas. What could be the problem?

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Old 04-11-2010, 09:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: Engine not starting, cranks, but that is all

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlnguyen5 View Post
I'm having the same problem and was told that it was the ECM because it was not communicating with the scanner. I ran errands and when I went back to start the car, it wouldn't turn over and my gas gauge showed empty. I checked and I had gas. What could be the problem?
If it's an L-Series, it is probably the BCM. The symptoms are typical of a BCM failure. No communication, gauges in-op, no start, etc.

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Old 04-11-2010, 09:11 PM   #8
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Dizzy Re: Engine not starting, cranks, but that is all

I know nothing about cars and having to trust others so sorry if I ask dumb questions. The shop told me they could communicate with the BCM but not the ECM. Could it be possible that the ECM failed but not the BCM? What does something like that cost? HELP! What is the difference in symptoms of these two failures?

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