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Old 10-15-2002, 10:47 AM   #1
Jeff P
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Default Ion mileage

ok we've gone over this one before, just came across an interesting tidbit to add to the discussion.

Mileage for the Ion, from Saturn's website
manual 26/33
auto 23/31

Mileage for the base 2003 Saab 9-3, which has a 175 hp, turbo 2.0l Ecotec engine
manual 23/31
auto 22/31

The automatics in these cars by the way are virtually identical. I'm not sure about the exact gear ratios but I know they're basically the same.

Does it seem odd to anyone else that a turbo Saab gets almost exactly the same mileage with an automatic as the Ion does? I'm curious to see how the 210 hp version of the Saab does.

jeff

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Old 10-15-2002, 11:00 AM   #2
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No way man. You can run a Turbo motor at almost no boost under cruise and have the most efficient combustion event possible from being able to define EVERY parameter that goes into the combustion event from Atmospheric to A/F ratio. The PCM control of this vbehicle is so efficient that it can run probably as lean at 17:1 at cruise and really make great MPG results.
Turbos are implemented to increase MPG results, but have this real nice side effect called high HP.

I can get as much at 44 MPG at an average of 75 MPH when I was boost back and forth from Lancaster to San Diego with my supercharger system.

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-Adam Chant
2007 Saturn SKY - Supercharged
1997 Saturn SC2 - Stock Rebuild

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Old 10-15-2002, 03:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ion mileage

Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff P
Does it seem odd to anyone else that a turbo Saab gets almost exactly the same mileage with an automatic as the Ion does? I'm curious to see how the 210 hp version of the Saab does.
The speeds and aceleration rates afre very modest on those EPA milage loops. Little old lady down the street prbably drives more agressively than these test cycles.

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Old 10-15-2002, 04:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ion mileage

Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff P
Mileage for the Ion, from Saturn's website
manual 26/33
auto 23/31
That is odd - the ION 2 automatic that I saw last week has a 32 on the highway.

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Old 10-16-2002, 10:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by SCDYNE
No way man. You can run a Turbo motor at almost no boost under cruise and have the most efficient combustion event possible from being able to define EVERY parameter that goes into the combustion event from Atmospheric to A/F ratio. The PCM control of this vbehicle is so efficient that it can run probably as lean at 17:1 at cruise and really make great MPG results.
Turbos are implemented to increase MPG results, but have this real nice side effect called high HP.

I can get as much at 44 MPG at an average of 75 MPH when I was boost back and forth from Lancaster to San Diego with my supercharger system.
Huh?

A turbo'd engine should get similar mileage to a non turbo of equal displacement and gearing, when not under boost. At low RPMs at cruise, the turbo isn't doing anything. The only advantages for mileage that I can see is that a turbo'd motor would be(in theory) able to run with taller gearing due to its ability to summon much more HP and torque than an N/A motor if the car needs to pass or accellerate. Fewer RPMs=less fuel...in addition, the Saab'otec is smaller in displacement...less fuel. The super lean ratios are insubstantial in terms of fuel consumption, and any motor can obtain them, turbo or not.

As for your supercharger, now I'm not implying anything, but c'mon, Adam, you know as well as I do that a supercharger ****s HP all the time, even when little or no boost is being supplied by the supercharger at very low RPMs. Heck, I've got boost as low as 2K on my C...My 92SC was over 3K at 75mph...youve got boost at that speed. How exactly your supercharger aided your mileage is beyond me. The parasitic loss is still there... Even if your 'supercharger system' employed some sort of magnetic clutch, you still wouldn't see mileage any higher than a non boosted 1.9 Saturn mill.

The Saab likely gets better mileage because of its smaller displacement, taller gearing, and lower Cd. That, or someones mileage numbers have been "Hyundaisized"......

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Old 10-17-2002, 01:21 AM   #6
DarkAngel
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Thats some good gas mileage!

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Old 10-18-2002, 08:33 PM   #7
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Default Ion Milage

In my opinion published MPG figures are drastically lower than what one could expect from normal driving. My '97 SL2 Auto is rated @
25 city 36 hwy. Yet I regularly see 34 in town
and 45-48 on hwy trips. I would expect to see
at least 30/40 in an Ion Auto. Still not great but not as discouraging as I originally thought.

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Old 10-18-2002, 08:52 PM   #8
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Default

BradJK, it's funny you bring up this subject, I was just commenting to a coworker today about how my '92 SC still gets just about the EPA estimates for mileage. I get roughly 26-28 in pure city, 33-36 pure highway depending on the season. I think the EPA estimates on my car were in that range (bought it used - PG do you know the exact #'s)? I guess some people just drive their cars more like the way the EPA assumes than others.

Got a question to ask you guys - I won't be buying a new car until next summer probably. My main two that I'm looking at are the 9-3 and G35 sedan. I won't drive the current G35 because it's an automatic. I'm a stick-only person, the 6 speed G35 is supposedly coming out in the spring. But, I could test drive a base mode (175 hp & 5 speed) 9-3 right now, even though I'd only consider getting the higher level, "Vector" trim with the 210 hp & 6 speed which is available in the spring. So, should I take the 9-3 for a spin now, which would be loads of fun but would drive me insane for the next 9 months, or should I just wait for the Vector to come out? I love my SC but I can't wait to have a new car!


jeff

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Old 10-18-2002, 09:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff P
(bought it used - PG do you know the exact #'s)?
I want to say it was 24/36 for the stick, and 24/34 for the auto...don't quote me on that. Mine regularly got 26 around town(unless I was stirring up trouble with the local rice), and 35-38 on the highway...my to and from work loop was 33.

92SC...finest year for Saturn Coupes!

Quote:
Got a question to ask you guys - I won't be buying a new car until next summer probably. My main two that I'm looking at are the 9-3 and G35 sedan. I won't drive the current G35 because it's an automatic. I'm a stick-only person, the 6 speed G35 is supposedly coming out in the spring. I love my SC but I can't wait to have a new car!
jeff
I'm a coupe guy...so the new 9-3 and G35 both were off my list immediately. Styling of the G35 is still a bit anonymous for my tastes...I'd take the slick looking 9-3 over it. A friend of mine just got the Linear...I haven't seen it yet, maybe this weekend. He's been a Saab driver for years, so it should be interesting to see what he has to say about it over the old cars. Infinity, as a brand, hasn't been too successful over the years, perhaps the G35 will change that. I always liked the J30...it was such an unconvential looking vehicle, classy and drove like a dream.

I know what you mean...I really like the SC, but after 10 years of happy ownership, I was ready for something new...and with the kiddo coming, I knew it was now or not for a while...so I bought a C230K! Frankly, I would have been very happy with a G3 SC2...but the car really needs more power. And the ION convinced me I didn't want a 'new' Saturn.

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Old 10-18-2002, 09:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ion Milage

Quote:
Originally posted by BradJK
In my opinion published MPG figures are drastically lower than what one could expect from normal driving. My '97 SL2 Auto is rated @
25 city 36 hwy. Yet I regularly see 34 in town
and 45-48 on hwy trips. I would expect to see
at least 30/40 in an Ion Auto. Still not great but not as discouraging as I originally thought.
Must be those "Canadian miles"

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Old 10-20-2002, 10:32 PM   #11
DarkAngel
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I got the origional sticker on my used 97' SC2 and it says she's go 27 / 37 MPG on a 5 Speed Manual.

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Old 05-29-2003, 11:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: Re: Ion Milage

Quote:
Originally posted by Plastic Gravity
Must be those "Canadian miles"
Or maybe your lower gas milage is a result of lousy gas


I used to have a 94 SL1 and it easily got 32mpg in city and bout 38-40 hwy. I must have measured it a thousand times, with only slight variations. My new Ion, is getting about 30mpg city and about 37hwy, but I'm still testing it.


Edward.

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Old 05-30-2003, 06:50 AM   #13
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Happy milage update

Well at 22,380 miles I have gotten up to 38.9 mpg. my target is 40........I estimate that i need to get 256 miles by the time I reach a half tank of gas. If you have the manuals, at a half tank you have consumed 6.4 gallons. I think the next 1.1 mpg is going to be tough........

Ion3 Black

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Old 05-30-2003, 09:06 AM   #14
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Default

Jeff P:

The Saturn website has the following for the ION sedan...

EPA Mileage Estimates** (city/highway mpg)
Manual transmission
26/33
Automatic transmission
24/32

And the following for the QuadCoupe...

Manual transmission
26/33
VTi variable transmission
24/32

I got this from the specifications page. There are slight differences from your numbers. But, there may be some deviation from the various sources. I think Piney may be right. I'm pretty sure that my window sticker says 32MPG as the highway milage.

I'm actually getting 34.3 at 3000 miles in mixed driving now. I'm pretty content with that, but I feel I'll be busting 35 MPG really soon. And Gizmo and others are nearing 40MPG on all highway trips. Some, like Jaseball, are getting slightly lower milage (at 29 MPG mostly city driving), but I think that he still has less than 1000 miles on his engine. I think that the summer fuel is going to make a big difference.

As for the milage similarities between the two cars; It doesn't surprise me all that much. There is little difference between the 2.0 and the 2.2l Ecotec engines. I think that someone mentioned that the piston throw is a little shorter on the 2.0l engine, and that's about it. The Saab 93 is a few hundred pounds heavier than the ION. So, while you've got a smaller engine that is slightly more fuel efficient, you've got more weight. The boost is what adds the performance and keeps the 93 from running like a dog. In the end, you probably get a slightly faster car with the SAAB. The power to weight ratio is a little bit better, even in the 175HP version. But it's REALLY good in the 210HP version, especially when paired with the 6-speed manual.

So, I think that the real key is the boost and the smaller engine. Turbo is a great way to get some extra power without sacrificing fuel economy.

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Old 05-30-2003, 09:19 AM   #15
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Default Re: Re: Ion mileage

Quote:
Originally posted by haypops
Little old lady down the street prbably drives more agressively than these test cycles.
Hey, I am that little old lady down the street, and I drive as smoothly as I can; even so, my first fill up on a QC/VTi showed 26 mpg. Does it improve?

Even so, I'll stick with my QC over a Saab 9-3. QCs are cuter and carry more ducks.

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Old 05-30-2003, 09:55 AM   #16
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Default Re: Re: Re: Ion mileage

Quote:
Originally posted by ducklet
Hey, I am that little old lady down the street, and I drive as smoothly as I can; even so, my first fill up on a QC/VTi showed 26 mpg. Does it improve?

Even so, I'll stick with my QC over a Saab 9-3. QCs are cuter and carry more ducks.
Yeah. It'll improve quite a bit over time. Mine's gone up by a few MPG recently, especially after my first oil change.

You won't notice as much of a change though if you only travel short distances and do a lot of stop-and-go driving. I wouldn't expect more than 29 MPG with moslty city driving.

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Old 05-30-2003, 10:05 AM   #17
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Default Re: Re: Re: Ion mileage

Quote:
Originally posted by ducklet
Hey, I am that little old lady down the street, and I drive as smoothly as I can; even so, my first fill up on a QC/VTi showed 26 mpg. Does it improve?

Even so, I'll stick with my QC over a Saab 9-3. QCs are cuter and carry more ducks.
You have the VTi; how can you *not* drive smoothly?


What kind of seatbelts do your ducks use? (Have you seen those seatbelts for dogs yet?)

...
*Drive it like you bought it.

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