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Old 05-22-2003, 10:44 AM   #21
QC_Nate
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Hello guys,

Looking through the window stickers I see that the extra 3,000 was for ABS,roof,power, convenience, and standard 15" wheels.

I did not pay for the 17"ers

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Old 05-22-2003, 10:47 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by QC_Nate
Hello guys,

Looking through the window stickers I see that the extra 3,000 was for ABS,roof,power, convenience, and standard 15" wheels.

I did not pay for the 17"ers
Ah, the last missing piece of the puzzle.....makes sence now... have you talked to them yet?

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Old 05-22-2003, 11:04 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by QC_Nate
Hello guys,

Looking through the window stickers I see that the extra 3,000 was for ABS,roof,power, convenience, and standard 15" wheels.

I did not pay for the 17"ers
Um, if they were on the car when it was demoed to you and you negotiated that sale predicated upon the car as you drove it, you own those rims. That they frigged the paperwork is nonsense. If it has pinstripes or superwax on it and it is not on the dealer added window-sticker, will they strip the wax off and take the stripes too???

Keep the rims and let them learn how to run a dealership while fretting over the very minor loss.

If you have an ION3, what is the retail list of those 4 rims and tires that came off of you car in order to put yours on it? They ain't out 2 grand - trust me.

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Old 05-22-2003, 11:05 AM   #24
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QC_NATE:

First of all, I am a Sales Consultant for Saturn of _______. I've sold Saturns for 7 years now. Not bragging, not complaining. Just wanted to give you a little background of myself.

As I see it, from what you have stated, you have no worries. And please everyone, as an earlier post I've read has suggested, be calm about this matter.

Nate, you made an offer to buy a car and your Saturn store offered to sell you a car. It has a VIN somewhere on your documentation that should match your car's VIN. On the sales contract, it makes no matter as to whether the chrome wheels were mentioned or not. It makes no matter as to whether a sunroof was mentioned or not. Why? Because there is an assumption by the buyer and the seller that every detail of the car need not be listed. Can you imagine all the thousands of parts that would have to be listed in order to sell a car if this were a requirement? I wouldn't want to list all of that stuff and most buyers would not want to read the list. Thats why we use VIN's. So both parties assume that what is being sold is obvious.

So much for listing the "special" chrome alloy wheels and sunroof.

As far as the dealership not being aware of their mistake at the time of sale, sorry Saturn of Where Ever, eat the mistake, quit hassling Nate, and learn from your mistake. This loss will be a rather costly, but apparantly necessary lesson to Saturn of Where Ever.

Everybody, this is not a case of "bait and switch". This is a case of human error and someone at Saturn of Where Ever trying to correct their error. It could have been handled a better way. The person(s) responsible should have simply stated to Nate, "Hey, we screwed up and it would really be nice of you to pay for something that, in essence, we gave to you free of charge."

Nate, enjoy your car. If you are concerned that you will not receive good treatment from the service department at your Saturn store, you can go to another Saturn store. They should be happy to have another service customer and perhaps a good and lasting relationship can be developed.

Best of luck with your new Saturn!

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Old 05-22-2003, 02:22 PM   #25
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I think diplomacy is best as well. I hate when some people on this board immediately just say things like Let them eat it, or it's their mistake...too bad. I feel that way, because I know that if you as the customer accidentally gave the dealership too much money, and called to notify them of the mistake, you would certainly expect them to realize the "TRUTH" in the matter, and want it rectified. I guess, I always want to find out the truth. Disregard any alluding to misinformation etc.....what is THE TRUTH? Have the wheels been paid for or not? Now I am not saying that you can't ask for some kind of a concession......most businesses are more than willing to do so. But to have a blanket statement that they should just eat it isn't even close to being in the realm of fairness. I think that we as consumers have some degree of obligation to treat business just as fairly as we wish to be treated. Otherwise, the next time we get stung, who are we to blame...the system that we help perpetuate? Go forth, and find out what happened, and then see if we can't split this mistake fairly somehow!!

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Old 05-22-2003, 03:11 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by BuySaturn
I think diplomacy is best as well. I hate when some people on this board immediately just say things like Let them eat it, or it's their mistake...too bad.
Business is business. Show me the invoice for the wheels and rims that were taken off his car- of course retail invoice since they are trying to charge retail for the wheels he bought on the car he was sold. Betch a dollar that they are trying to charge retail but forgetting to back out the cost difference.

Quote:
Originally posted by BuySaturn
I feel that way, because I know that if you as the customer accidentally gave the dealership too much money, and called to notify them of the mistake, you would certainly expect them to realize the "TRUTH" in the matter, and want it rectified.
Accidentially gave the dealer too much money. Hmmm- Late Spring, 1991 Saturn of Charlotte, then owned by Rick Hendrick (before felony conviction forced sale to wife). Fresh out of college and in a career path, not much credit but no bad credit. They sell me a 1991 SL2 for 13200 out the door at something like 10% interest. Five days later their F&I guy calls me and tells me that the interest just got bumped to over 15%. Seemed that he "could not get the deal bought...".

Hindsight being what it is, I know he was lying his pants off. The dealer chose a very cheesy way to beat me out of extra money. F&I guys know what they can and can't get bought and they knew it. Being new to the new-car buying field, I got screwed 100 ways till Tuesday. There was no accidental overpayment, merely a rewriting of the deal by the dealer after the fact.

So, am I a bit less sympathetic to the poor megadealers who happen to lose a couple of hundred on a deal? Yep.

Family friend owns a few Ford and Chrysler dealers up in Jersey. He has a million plus house on the water, 54' Crusiers yacht at the dock and stuff like that. A couple of hundred to someone like that ain't squat. Let the little guy enjoy his wheels and sunroof.

Maybe the dealer can spend some money on training their personnel how to track inventory.

You can't tell me that the salesman did not notice the sunroof and wheels on the test drive.

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Old 05-22-2003, 03:49 PM   #27
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Hmm, call me a wuss, wimp, or passive but this is what I would do....

I would bring that car back in. If I paid for the wheels, I would demand a refund. If I didn't pay for the wheels, I would let them have them, but ask for a free accessory, like the SATURN LOGO or free oil changes for a while.

I don't know what my problem with this is, but I think this has become a mountain range when it only had to be an ant hill. Sure, some people are inconvenienced, but aren't there more important things to worry about?

I was resisting the temptation to reply for this post for a few days, but I couldn't help it anymore.

...
*Drive it like you bought it.

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Old 05-22-2003, 03:49 PM   #28
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When I worked for Saturn of Salisbury, I once sold a 1997 red SC2 to a girl in college. After hammering out all the paperwork and getting the car financed, the detail shop informed me that there was an aftermarket Sony CD changer in the car. We never noticed it. The changer was under the passenger's seat & the wired remote was disconnected in the glove box.

I asked my General Manager what we should do. He said, "The paperwork is done. It's too much trouble to repaper the car. Our loss, but her gain. Think how thrilled she'll be at delivery time when we show her the secret added feature. She'll love you and the retailer!"

I got the guys in detail to reconnect the remote. I remembered seeing her collection of CDs in her trade, so I went to Staples, bought some CD-Rs, went online and used Kazaa, and burned her 5 mix CD's of her favorite artists. I put them in the changer. I wrote down the stations that she had preset on her trade's radio and programmed her SC2.

This was HER first car. The trade belonged to her dad. She was so thrilled at the time of delivery after seeing all the extras that she got that she was crying. She later wrote a letter to the owner of the retailer and Saturn Corporate.

She has sent 5 or 6 friends and family members to the retailer and all of them bought Saturns!

Happy Ending!

...
93m SL1 "SLone" 145,000 mi. - RIP 10/08
94m SL2 "Ringo" 209,425 - ret. 7/31/07, RIP 10/08
01m SC2 "Lello" 129,000
07a GL VUE "Orbit" 48,900 - RIP 6/19/10
10a Ford Escape Hybrid - 8600 mi.

Last edited by Arnel; 05-22-2003 at 03:55 PM..

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Old 05-22-2003, 05:37 PM   #29
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Well Piney, I am sorry to hear about your negative experiences. Seems like most lessons in life come by making mistakes!!! I too have learned that whole thing about not signing until I see actual approval from the bank! And no, the finance people cannot ALWAYS tell what a bank will and won't buy.....my little bro has worked as one for years, and still has stories about deals he found unbelievable to have been turned down by a bank.

Arnel, good job on your experience, and making your customer happy. I am sure the cos associated with doing so was acceptable to your managment team. Going to bat for your customer has helped you become successful by bringing in those referrals!! One question? Did any of those direct referrals "expect" any kind of similar freebie???

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Old 05-22-2003, 05:51 PM   #30
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The referrals I got did not expect any freebies, but they were very enthusiastic about buying/owning a Saturn. And they still are.

I always did the little thing like reprogramming their stereo based on their trade vehicle & other little things like that.

I'd get a thrill by going over the top for a guest & the minimal out of pocket expense on my part brought me more new referrals/guests tenfold.

Give 'em what they don't expect and they will tell everyone they know. (kind of like the ad where the guy tells everyone he lowered his cholesterol.)

...
93m SL1 "SLone" 145,000 mi. - RIP 10/08
94m SL2 "Ringo" 209,425 - ret. 7/31/07, RIP 10/08
01m SC2 "Lello" 129,000
07a GL VUE "Orbit" 48,900 - RIP 6/19/10
10a Ford Escape Hybrid - 8600 mi.

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Old 05-23-2003, 05:14 AM   #31
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Piney, that "we couldn't get the deal bought" is a very old dealer trick to make money on the back end. Retailers who are desparate for business will roll a car without approved financing (just assuming it will be at a certain rate) and get turned down by the bank at the stated rate. However, they can usually force an "exception" (i.e. tell the bank to take this deal with borderline credit and get these 3-4 with 700+ scores or get none at all. Retailers usually get a number of exceptions per month from their preferred financers, usually GMAC).

QC_Nate: Those "$2200" wheels & tires probably set them back about $800. They're not losing money, just not making as much profit as they'd like. Times are very tough in the car business right now. Business is WAY down. If you like the wheels, keep them. They're not gonna send someone to your house to steal them back. Best of luck with your new Saturn!

Pete

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Old 05-23-2003, 06:53 AM   #32
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Piney,

Saturn of Raleigh was once a Hendrick store too.

Went there in 95 to buy an SL. They tried to push me into a lease and ram the fabric/paint crap up my bunghole in a way that would make a Toyota dealer smile.

Then, kept the reggy on my Sentra (by mistake) after appraising it. Noticed this before leaving, and they weren't even surprised. Good way to get you back for a second shot.

Wound up with a new Protege but screamed long and loud to Spring Hill. Must have been many complaints because Hendrick totally changed the staff. Later the dealer became company owned and run by a very decent team.

You're right about the original wheels. Bet they sold them as an upgrade to some other customer and would conveniently forget to credit the customer for the "take offs".

As you put it "business is business". If it was on the car when the deal was done, the customer owns it.

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Old 05-23-2003, 07:03 AM   #33
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Originally posted by Pete93SL1M
Piney, that "we couldn't get the deal bought" is a very old dealer trick to make money on the back end.
Yea - I was just 22 and fresh out of college with no smarts about how to buy a car. Since then, I've gotten a few over on the dealers in return . I wound up refing the car with a local bank within 3 months anyhow - but it certainly ticked me off.

Taking the wheels back because they were not on the deal paperwork is akin to the dealer calling you and saying that, "Hey, we found better financing for you - come on in, oh, and we found another rebate that we will give you..."

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Old 05-23-2003, 08:02 AM   #34
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dont give em the wheels.

and what are they going to do with them after? probably end up on ebay or something.

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Old 05-23-2003, 09:08 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by MydnightMyst
While I agree that they are indeed at fault for this mix-up, you will have to handle things diplomatically. Especially if they have the only Saturn Retailer within a driving distance you are willing to make. Why? Even though they have to fix things, they can be picky and they can find other ways to mess with you during service. Warranty issues, well, could be a nightmare. Yes, technically, they have to fix any warranty related thing, but they certainly could make it a bad experience for you..
First off if a Saturn dealership discriminated against you b/c they took a loss on a vehicle (or at least didn't make the "normal" profit that they are accustomed to) I say "too frigg'n bad!"...
If you did a trade-in and had a custom head unit in your vehicle at the time of the trade that you "forgot" to remove, do you expect a dealership to just take it out and hand it over to you b/c you're loosing $$$'s on the deal. The contract was finalized by $$$'s being exchanged and taking possession of a vehicle...case closed!...
I knew a guy who special ordered a Nissan several years ago...he was delivered it with a prototype experimental engine that was definately not stock for the vehicle (hp/torque and fuel milage was incrediable). Nissan tried everything in the world to get the vehicle back once they discovered the mistake. He got back quite a bit of $$$'s and a new 300ZX for his trouble.....
The vehicle is yours...with the options delivered to you...It's your vehicle...keep it!...

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Old 05-23-2003, 02:56 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arnel

I always did the little thing like reprogramming their stereo based on their trade vehicle & other little things like that.

I'd get a thrill by going over the top for a guest & the minimal out of pocket expense on my part brought me more new referrals/guests tenfold.

Give 'em what they don't expect and they will tell everyone they know. (kind of like the ad where the guy tells everyone he lowered his cholesterol.)
Now THAT'S a Class Act!!! Good show Arnel!

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Old 05-23-2003, 03:40 PM   #37
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As stated above, the dealership didn't lose money on the deal. Saturns no haggle policy leaves a decent profit margin on every vehicle sold. Considering they are still holding on to the original rims and tires from your Ion that they can sell for a profit there is no way they will lose money on the deal. So they won't profit on one vehicle this month. Big deal. Enjoy the rims.

...
Good by SL2, Hello???
Just waiting on the 5 door Astra

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Old 05-23-2003, 04:21 PM   #38
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Once again..... I guess no one is really interested in finding out THE TRUTH, and seeing that through. I remeber when Saturn started. It was great to see a fresh start in the auto industry. The rantings and acid tongued responses here toward retailers only serves to solidify my position that we customers are getting what we deserve sometimes......underhanded treatment. We are the ones trying to "trick the dealer", just as much as they are to us. What goes around comes around I guess. Saturn was at one time an opportunity for that nice even playing field experience. Too bad it has gone the way of the rotary dial phone...an outdated dinosaur in a world of one trick ponies that are focused on what can I get right now that is better than the next guy.........kinda sad.

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Old 05-23-2003, 06:19 PM   #39
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Once again..... I guess no one is really interested in finding out THE TRUTH, and seeing that through. I remeber when Saturn started.
Well, there were only about 3000 or so Saturns made when I got my first one, so I can say with relative authority that I remember when Saturn started. That, by the way, was the same time that the dirtbag F&I guy pulled the nifty finance stuff with me.

You must either be a dealer or retailer, so your view is of the dealership's. The vast majority of folks here are the ones on the losing end of the dealer/customer situation. We can readily identify with the customer.

I asked before if the dealer ever called the customer back to report that they could get lower financing then first thought. I'd like to think that this happens although it is probably as likely as someone actually not having the F&I guy try to sell them payment protection insurance.

THE TRUTH is that the DEALER took off stock alloy rims and tires that are worth quite a bit - particularly if they are retailed out to a body shop. THE TRUTH is that the dealer does not pay 2 grand for rims and tires - they get them wholesale or at jobber prices - much less than retail and for what TireRack charges. THE TRUTH is that someone offered this vehicle to a cusomer for a test drive, presumably a DEALER EMPLOYEE did this. THE TRUTH is that the customer bought the car as it was shown to him. THE TRUTH is that a power Webasto sunroof that retails for $800 cost that dealer ~$350 - probably around what the holdback is on that car anyhow. THE TRUTH is that the dealership is supposed be a professional operation and they know that mistakes like this are the cost of doing business.

I had my 1997's 30k service done at Swope of Louisville and can attest that is a first class dealership. They let me use their power for my laptop when I was there, gave my car a hand wash since I don't use automatic washes on my cars, fed me donuts and coffee - just a great dealership. That they would do something like this says that the GM probably has no idea that this took place and that someone down low is trying to cover their bottom for a screwup.

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Old 05-23-2003, 07:13 PM   #40
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I would just like to add that it doesn't matter what state you reside in or their laws because EVERY state has to abide by the MBG of Saturn - 30 day/1500 miles.

Bottom line - there wouldn't be ANYTHING keeping you from returning this car PROVIDED THAT its in accordance with the Saturn MBG "Buy-Back" program.

I realize you have no intentions or desire to return this car because its exactly what the doctor ordered, however I just want you to know that the legalities mentioned earlier in this thread do not apply UNTIL after the MBG grace period. Once that passes you literally are stuck with your car, for all intensive legal purposes.

I hope it works out for you. The dealership will most likely take the loss on this one because they appear to be responsible for the miscommunication, and you did in fact sign a document that included your vehicle's specs, in addition to an itemization of each expense. If that holds true, you can definitely pursue the fact that everyone was aware of the asking price and you willingly agreed to pay the amount requested, REGARDLESS of whether or not the value was misrepresented.

Above all else, I agree that you are much better being civil than giving anyone a hard time. It's a professional establishment and you can bet that its not the first time they've had to take a loss right in the gut.

Good luck.

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