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Old 09-05-2015, 02:53 PM   #1
flapjabby
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Default 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

Moving this from an old thread. I have a 1994 SL1. I failed NOx emissions recently (limit is 2.00):

first test: HC: 0.31 CO: 3.24 CO2: 301.40 NOX: 4.12 (FAILED)
just prior to test: drove 10 miles on the freeway (car had been sitting for months, undriven)
after the test: I flushed the coolant system, replaced the ECTS, oil change

second test: HC: 0.34 CO: 7.96 CO2: 383.40 NOX: 2.85 (FAILED)
just prior to test: drove the car 13 miles freeway.
after the test: cleaned the EGR, replaced oxygen sensor and replaced the fuel filter.

third test: HC: 0.33 CO: 7.89 CO2: ? NOX: 2.71 (FAILED)
just prior to test: drove the car ~45 miles freeway.

time to bury this car or any other suggestions? One poster suggested to put a 'grate' in the carb for back pressure, but not sure I can pull that off with my limited skills.

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Old 09-05-2015, 03:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

Well, Saturns have never used carbs as a stock item, so I would ignore that post. What state are you in, what units do they measure NOX in? I'm used to seeing ppm (part-per-million), and "2.00" would be quite low...

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Old 09-05-2015, 05:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

NOX here is in grams/mile. State is AZ.

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Old 09-05-2015, 05:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

According to your pictures from previous threads, it appears your egr valve is missing the vacuum line. Yours uses vacuum controlled by an egr solenoid on the back of the engine block. The intake manifold supplies vacuum for the power brake unit, positive crankcase ventilation valve and egr valve. If the vacuum line is missing from the egr valve, the valve will not open to pass exhaust gases into the intake manifold to help lower NOx. In addition to this, the egr electric solenoid may be faulty and not working; engine off or idling, this valve shuts off vacuum flow to the egr valve and when accelerating the solenoid powers up and opens the vacuum valve to feed vacuum to the egr valve. The egr valve is vacuum powered. A '94 and Arizona desert heat, dry rot can accelerate rubber hoses, disintegrating while an electric egr vacuum valve may be dead, stuck closed or open.

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Old 09-05-2015, 06:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

when I took that pic, I had taken the vacuum line off as part of cleaning the EGR. I'll look into the other things you mentioned. thanks

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Old 09-05-2015, 07:00 PM   #6
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
... In addition to this, the egr electric solenoid may be faulty and not working; engine off or idling, this valve shuts off vacuum flow to the egr valve and when accelerating the solenoid powers up and opens the vacuum valve to feed vacuum to the egr valve. The egr valve is vacuum powered. A '94 and Arizona desert heat, dry rot can accelerate rubber hoses, disintegrating while an electric egr vacuum valve may be dead, stuck closed or open.
I assume you're talking about replacing one or both of these:
http://www.autozone.com/emission-con...35961_34885_0/

http://www.autozone.com/emission-con...hc/828199_0_0/

I know where to EGR valve is since I cleaned it but I haven't found the EGR vacuum solenoid yet.

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Old 09-05-2015, 11:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

I measured 45 ohms across the EGR vacuum solenoid terminals, with the snap-in connector removed (where the red arrow points to in the pic I 'borrowed' from an ebay listing). Not sure if this means its bad and needs to be replaced. According to something I ran across on ebay, its supposed to be 37-44 ohms.
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File Type: jpg solendoid Capture.JPG (56.1 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg $_57.jpg (134.5 KB, 4 views)

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Old 09-05-2015, 11:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

It is probably good. Apply 12V and see if it opens. As long as it opens and closes it is fine. A 94 EGR valve will not last forever and it may be leaking as well. Will it open if you apply vacuum?

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Old 09-06-2015, 04:25 AM   #9
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

Resistance shouldn't be a problem as its powered by 12 volts to open/close a vacuum line. You can try it by powering it up with 12 volts directly (a click should be heard or felt) to the battery and sucking or blowing thru it; without power the valve is closed, with power the valve is open. The egr valve can be tested by either using a vacuum line from a hand held mity vac or equivalent vacuum tool or finding a vacuum line from the egr solenoid valve; engine idling and applying vacuum directly to the egr valve to open it; the open valve will feed exhaust gases into the intake manifold and either kill the engine or drop rpm quickly - both indicating the egr valve is operating. The egr valve only opens when accelerating or in cruise, closed at idle or wide open throttle.

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Old 09-06-2015, 10:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

What could be other causes for high NOX, given what I've already replaced? (I'll check the EGR valve and solenoid, just looking ahead ... I'm paying the Motor Vehicle Division's payroll with all these attempts to pass emissions)

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Old 09-06-2015, 10:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

An exhaust leak upstream of the cat, or a bad cat. (Not sure about the cat, here in Calif. we have fancy cats that reduce NOX as well as other stuff, maybe not so in your state)

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Old 09-06-2015, 10:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

All CATs are 3 way CATs and have been for years.

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Old 09-08-2015, 01:14 AM   #13
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
An exhaust leak upstream of the cat, or a bad cat.
Is it just process of elimination to know if I have a bad cat? or is there a specific test that will identify if the cat itself is bad?

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Old 09-08-2015, 01:35 AM   #14
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

It's a restriction after the cat not before the carb


post 14:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=208882


Works like a charm on my 86 Toyota truck 22re engine.......

...
Ed

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Old 09-08-2015, 11:13 AM   #15
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

Alas, the "process of elimination" is all I know of when the cat is ineffective. There are ways to determine if it is clogged, but not to tell if it is working correctly to reduce all pollutants (HC, CO, and NOX).

Edit: At the beginning of this thread you said the NOX limit is 2.00 (grams/mile, right?). Do they also give "average" or "typical" values? I'm wondering how high you are compared to "normal".

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Old 09-08-2015, 08:54 PM   #16
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
Alas, the "process of elimination" is all I know of when the cat is ineffective. There are ways to determine if it is clogged, but not to tell if it is working correctly to reduce all pollutants (HC, CO, and NOX).

Edit: At the beginning of this thread you said the NOX limit is 2.00 (grams/mile, right?). Do they also give "average" or "typical" values? I'm wondering how high you are compared to "normal".
unfortunately they only give me one measured number and one number for the limit.

Back when I cleaned the EGR valve, it did require a good amount of force to push the pin in, which seemed contrary to the way other posters described how much force should be needed in other threads. So I'm hoping that replacing that will do the trick, but again, I'm getting near the end of possibilities (and making the emissions testing center 'rich' in the process )

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Old 09-19-2015, 04:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

replaced the EGR valve and solendoid. However, when I went to drive the car to get emissions test again, noticed a small high pressure coolant leak near the radiator .

Now I get to find out how difficult a radiator change is or see if there's a way to poor-man patch it.
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Old 09-19-2015, 07:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

You replace it and it is an easy job as radiator replacements go.

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Old 09-20-2015, 12:11 AM   #19
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
You replace it and it is an easy job as radiator replacements go.
No J-B Weld ?

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Old 10-10-2015, 04:30 PM   #20
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Default Re: 94 SL1 failing NOX emissions test

Saturn *passed* after replacing the EGR solenoid and valve.

fourth test: HC: 0.11 CO: 2.28 CO2: ? NOX: 0.86 (PASSED)
just prior to test: drove the car ~45 miles freeway.

(I also used JB-Weld to temporarily 'repair' the radiator leak (Wanted to make sure it would pass emissions before I dumped any more money in to fix things)

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