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Old 02-23-2001, 02:35 PM   #1
kazi
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Default L series refresh glimpse

I remember our insider, gmlinedog, in a previous thread describing the 2003 L series facelift refresh:

<i>"will have a totally new frontend to the doors..(fenders , hood, headlites,Front and rear bumpers).. The headlights kind of look like the Caddy deville... (angular)With new tailights ( all red) and different deck applique.</i>
<a href="http://64.77.2.166/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=001&Post=1864& Idle=365&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session=" target="_blank"><!--auto-->http://64.77.2.166/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=001&Post=1864& Idle=365&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session=</a><!--auto-->

So, I've been on this Opel reseaching mood lately (Astra coupe), and I just came across some pictures of the next Opel Vectra. Of couse everyone knows the L is based off the Vectra. And what I found looks similar to what gmlinedog describe. Note the C pillar, the extended rear doors, and the Caddy headlights.

<img src="http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/paul56/vec.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.geocities.co.jp/MotorCity/9482/cvectra2.jpg" border="0">
<b>Wow!!! New short-deck Transporter wagon model:</b>
<img src="http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/paul56/vec1.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/paul56/vec2.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.geocities.co.jp/MotorCity/9482/vec2.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.vanwassenhove.be/images/opelvectra2.jpg" border="0">

IMO, if the exterior is little changed from the Opel model, I think this Euro-design can bring Saturn up to compete with the VWs at Honda's price range with polymer panels and Saturn service. I really think the new Vectra wagon model looks very classy, unlike the simple design of the current Vectra and Saturn. Almost Audi A4 Advant design queues. I especially like that short deck sports wagon, but I doubt that will ever make it over the North American SUV hungry market.

Here's a pic of the current Vectra to compare how much it has simliar to our current L models.
<img src="http://www.geocities.co.jp/MotorCity/9482/i500.jpg" border="0">
<a href="http://www.geocities.co.jp/MotorCity/9482/vectra.html" target="_blank"><!--auto-->http://www.geocities.co.jp/MotorCity/9482/vectra.html</a><!--auto-->

<img src="http://www.opel.de/showroom/vectra/gallery/bilder/05.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.opel.de/showroom/vectra/gallery/bilder/06.jpg" border="0">

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Old 02-23-2001, 03:00 PM   #2
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Kamakazi,
good work man. I've never been one who said that the L series was ugly or bland (as many auto writers do, while ignoring the look of the Accord and Camry), but whoa that Vectra is much better looking. And it does the important thing, looking cool and innovative without being weird. Frankly Saturn ought to make that the 2002 refresh instead of 2003. I see what you mean by Cadillac DeVille headlights. Nice looking car.

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Old 02-23-2001, 03:27 PM   #3
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Well, personally I like the lower profile headlights on the older version. The new ones just look too big...kind of like what Honda did to the Civic a few years ago. Still, it's not horrible.

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Old 02-23-2001, 03:47 PM   #4
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Yeah, it took me a while to accept the Civic's big makeover in 96 to those ugly headlights, but after a few months of looking at it, I came to accept that it wasn't that bad. The current Prelude on the other hand, I love everything about it, except the high msrp and those ***** headlights. I think I can accept the 2002 Vectra's light style into the L because it gives it a more of a european look and a distinct look from the Accord/Camry.

I would not consider the current L ugly or bland, but there's nothing there to make it really stand out from it's competitors. It's a conservative, simple design, and that's not a bad thing at all. The design style will carry on farther than a more fad style. I just want a total redo of the interior. Now that I will consider bland. I like the Vectra's interior much better than it's cousin Saturn L.

I wonder if there's ANY chance of GM carrying that short deck wagon over to the Saturn L??? Probably none. I say, if Saturn want's to be the "different kind of car" it'll bring that short wagon over and tune it up as a LW300-S (sport). Again, probably no chance. <img src="http://64.77.2.166/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/Images/Sad.gif" border="0" align="middle"> Us wagon folks don't even get a second look anymore. I'll just keep dreaming of it and the Astra coupe turbo base SC2.

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Old 02-23-2001, 04:42 PM   #5
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Great pics kamakazi! Look at the tire and wheel packages that are on those Opels!!!! And were stuck with so-so wheels and firesuck tires! It is painful when you see what GM euro gets and we have to be thankful just to get the brakes steering and suspension of the vectra. Oh and I am thankful for the V6. Quick look back at those wheels and tires, oh man. GM needs to pull its management head out of it's fat SUV/truck filled *** and bring us world class cars at Saturn prices with Saturn service.

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Old 02-23-2001, 09:05 PM   #6
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Actually, if the restyled L Series looks a lot like this car I think I'll probably start saving my money for a Passat! The front looks too square, the headlights are too big, and I don't like the new wider C pillar. Oh well, I guess we'll see...

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Old 02-23-2001, 10:16 PM   #7
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There's an article about the 2002-03 Vectra in the SaturnFans <!--http--><a href="http://www.saturnfans.com/Saturn_Models/Future_Rumors/" target="_blank">Future Rumors</a><!--url--> section.

Look for an article titlled "<!--http--><a href="http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ceickmeyer/news/33422.html" target="_blank">New Vectra's Ready To Shock</a><!--url-->".

Very interesting article.

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Old 02-23-2001, 10:57 PM   #8
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KAMAKAZI, it looks like you have been doing your homework. It has been a couple months since i saw the pics. of the 03 L but from what I remember the headlight are not that angular. They are longer from the grill to the fenders , and dont go up on the fenders as much.They are more similer to the corsa. Also the front end slopes down more. I think SATURNCANUCK said he saw a pic also and he would agree with me.

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Old 02-23-2001, 11:29 PM   #9
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I do not like the new Vectra front end, *especially* the headlights. They seem oversized from the perspective of form and I can't imagine how they would improve function. The rest of the car is not bad.

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Old 02-24-2001, 12:33 AM   #10
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When I look at the new Vectra, what came to my mind is just "That's it?"
Personally I don't like the big-eye look headlamps either....Still, I'm disappointed the new Vectra style just follow the trend(almost ending?) instead of setting the trend.

Honda, Caddy, Mercedes, Ford are all coming out with similar designs couple of years ago til currently.....I hope Saturn won't follow this 'out-dated' design cue in the 2003 refresh by that time. ;o

Still hard to beat the 1st Generation look from Saturn, that's distinctive from the crowded!

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Old 02-24-2001, 01:33 AM   #11
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<blockquote><hr><font size="1">Original Post:</font><!--1-->
It has been a couple months since i saw the pics. of the 03 L but from what I remember the headlight are not that angular. They are longer from the grill to the fenders , and dont go up on the fenders as much.They are more similer to the corsa. Also the front end slopes down more. <hr></blockquote>

Thank goodness! That sounds more like what I'm hoping to see...

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Old 02-24-2001, 01:45 AM   #12
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<blockquote><hr><font size="1">Original Post:</font><!--1-->
It has been a couple months since i saw the pics. of the 03 L but from what I remember the headlight are not that angular. They are longer from the grill to the fenders , and dont go up on the fenders as much.They are more similer to the corsa. Also the front end slopes down more. <hr></blockquote>

Thank goodness! That sounds more like what I'm hoping to see...

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Old 02-24-2001, 02:02 AM   #13
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I don't really like the new Vectra. I've always thought that the current (old) Vectra was one slick looking sedan. I hate to see them mess with the sleek front end and profile of the Vectra. I think the new one is too angular up front. The headlights, which look nice and classy on a Cadillac, just don't fit the mid-size family sedan range very well. I much, MUCH prefer the styling of the old Vectra, especially those souped up Vectras in the pics in the first post. Notice that the door frames, C-pillar, roofline, and all side, front, and rear windows are shared with the L-series. Assuming that the new 03 L-series will again share the basic body structure with the Vectra, we might see the wider C-pillar and funky rear quarter windows of the new Vectra on the L. I hope not. For all I care, I wouldn't mind if they gave Europe the new Vectra, and imported the OLD Vectra as the NEW L-series. I just REALLY like the styling of the old Vectra...especially those swoopy integrated side mirrors. Slick!

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Old 02-24-2001, 09:57 AM   #14
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SpeedPlayer,

I'm with you 100%! The new Vectra is not an improvement style-wise, IMO. Personally, I don't like the oversized headlights on any car, be it a Cadillac, Hyundai, or whatever. I also don't like fat looking C pillars behind the rear door. The front end is too tall and angular, and overall the older model just looks so much better!

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Old 02-24-2001, 07:23 PM   #15
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Kamakazi said
"I especially like that short deck sports wagon, but I doubt that will ever make it over the North American SUV hungry market."

Next week's issue of AutoWeek came today and they have a picture of that five door and they mention rumours that Saturn will get such a model! Sounds good to me (still pining over the demise of the SW2).

For once, Saturn would not be five years behind the marketplace - unless it comes out in 2007!

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Old 02-24-2001, 07:46 PM   #16
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Holy sh..! I will have to check that out. Talk to the wife today about the next car after the LW1 lease. She's pretty against getting a coupe, so no Astra coupe for me if it ever comes. <img src="http://64.77.2.166/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/Images/Sad.gif" border="0" align="middle"> Oh well...I'll settle can settle for a five door sport hatch. As I said, she's liking the Golf 1.8t(only wish the vr6 was avail in the US), a five door german hatch, but I like the RSX, a sports coupe. But a Saturn larger five door sports hatch L would probably be price where our Golf 1.8t would've been. Great, I only hope Saturn can try to bring out the "different kind of car" again with a sport short wagon L. Thanks for the news! Oh, if it does come true of a short wagon L, I hope they keep those rear fender flares.

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Old 02-26-2001, 02:01 PM   #17
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Sorry about the news on the no go to the coupe Kamakazi. I personally think the golfs are the ugliest cars made, but oh well. Great job on your research. Sometimes it is hard to get the misses to agree huh? I have had that problem too, but it all worked out in the end. She got Yellow! I got yellow. We get the GMS so I told her she had to pick GM. Grin. So of course she picked Saturn. Don't you have GMS? You are talking 2k+ off the car!
Grin,
Dayle

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Old 02-26-2001, 04:49 PM   #18
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I truly disagree with the ugliest car ever made being the Golf. I reserve that for some of the Koreon models (Kia/Daewoo) and that Isuzu Ironman SUV, and of course, the ipedimy of ***** cars, the Pontiac Aztec.

I never would have think I would like the Golf, but this British friend of mine I met last year was raving about his custom green Golf VR6 4motion (AWD). Talk about a lightweight fast car! I keep in touch with him once in a while. I guess, he tells me, Honda's are like old people's car out in England. I really like the hatch look of the Golf, plus it comes in a four door which the wife would prefer. What really makes the Golf stand out to me is the quality of the interior, more than the conservative exterior design. Now something like an shortwagon L would be very nice if it was given a sporty zing to differentiate from the longer wagon. She wants a 4dr straight back hatch, I want a sporty little coupe. The only thing out there currently that we can compromise is the Golf.

Yeah...I get the GMS discount. Work for a big IT company GM use to own. We still the GMO/GMS (only GMS for Saturns), but the only problem is that we get gift taxed ($300) on our paycheck because we're not under GM anymore. We got the GMS discount (about 2k off) and the full $800 market adjustment that dealers were allowed to markdown for year end, PLUS about 2% equivilant apr on your lease. Our LW1 (with pwr seat) lease (15k mileage allowance) came out to $210 with no money down. Pretty excellent compared to our other smaller choices (Civic LX, Focus wagon).

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Old 02-26-2001, 05:14 PM   #19
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<blockquote><hr><font size="1">Original Post:</font><!--1-->
We got the GMS discount (about 2k off) and the full $800 market adjustment that dealers were allowed to markdown for year end, PLUS about 2% equivilant apr on your lease. Our LW1 (with pwr seat) lease (15k mileage allowance) came out to $210 with no money down.<hr></blockquote>

How does a discount work on a lease? I have a bare-bones LS on a 4 year 2.9% loan, and my payments are $340/month. I didn't put anything down either. My total price was under $15k including a $750 marketing adjustment. I would guess the wagon was probably around $18k?

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Old 02-26-2001, 05:36 PM   #20
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Oh...I'm not exactly sure on how a lease works, but the GMS discount just cuts the capital cost (the price you pay if you would have bought it), which in turns reduces the difference between the capcost and residual value. This difference (don't remember the term for it) is basically the portion you pay on the lease. Say, at msrp, a LW is around $19k (also the capcost). Residual value at the end of the lease is set at $10k. Theoretically, in a lease you only pay for the portion you use, and in this case, the $9k. With a GMS discount, the portion you pay is the $9k minus GMS discount, thereby, your lease payments will be substantially lower because the residual value is fixed. This is the simpliest term I can put it, because I really am not a lease expert by any matter. Maybe someone else can help out.

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