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Old 12-06-2014, 09:13 PM   #1
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Default help me help this idiot please

A friend of mine went to virginia over the summer and came back with a 97 sc2 5 speed. He got for a steal, bought it from some kid that thought a bad water pump was the end of the world. At any rate we went through the car and fixed the worn suspension and tuned her up. Now he wants to turbo it. I tryed to talk him out of it but he is such a stubborn moron and doesnt have a clue about turbos. I dont know alot about it either so here is what he wants to do. Bolt a log manifold on and put a gt-17 on from a Saab. He thinks he is going to run 10psi without any extra fuel management. Anyone ever turboed a saturn without fuel management that didnt blow up, how many psi can it run without hurting it? And we live in ny where emissions are part of inspection. Would a turbo without fuel management cause a check engine light?
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Old 12-06-2014, 09:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

Yes, it will cause all kinds of issues without a stand alone engine management system. Will never pass emissions.
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Old 12-06-2014, 11:33 PM   #3
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

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A friend of mine went to virginia over the summer and came back with a 97 sc2 5 speed. He got for a steal, bought it from some kid that thought a bad water pump was the end of the world. At any rate we went through the car and fixed the worn suspension and tuned her up. Now he wants to turbo it. I tryed to talk him out of it but he is such a stubborn moron and doesnt have a clue about turbos. I dont know alot about it either so here is what he wants to do. Bolt a log manifold on and put a gt-17 on from a Saab. He thinks he is going to run 10psi without any extra fuel management. Anyone ever turboed a saturn without fuel management that didnt blow up, how many psi can it run without hurting it? And we live in ny where emissions are part of inspection. Would a turbo without fuel management cause a check engine light?
Depends what exactly your emissions testing includes.... You won't get very far for very long without any sort of extra fuel.
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Old 12-07-2014, 07:51 AM   #4
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

The engine won't last at all as soon as a turbo is dropped in for a simple reason; non boosted engines runs in a vacuum (negative pressure) and the map sensor along with the pcm only accounts for negative pressure - once a turbo or supercharger generates positive pressure, the map sensor can't detect it and the pcm cannot add more fuel needed with boost so the engine leans out immediately............... and blows up. The pcm isn't mapped for positive boost and the stock map sensor cannot detect it. Its a dead end and engine without a second engine management system, a map sensor rated for boost pressures and all the other details needed to turn a naturally aspirated engine into a turbo'd one.
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Old 12-07-2014, 09:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

Aside from all the technical reasons why it'll be a pain in the rump to do....it won't even be particularly fast if he manages to succeed. If he wants a small turbocharged economy car, there are lots of used ones out there that were built with a turbo for not a whole lot more money.

With enough money thrown at the problem, anything is possible. There are a number of turbocharged Saturns out there. Properly tuned, it'll get him into the speed ranks of a V6 minivan.

If he's still undeterred. I believe sixthsphere and a few other places have some guides.
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:22 AM   #6
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

Cheapest route if you have a welder is a 4G63 manifold, turbo and probably downpipe. Need to cut the ears off on the manifold and weld 'em in to make it flat like the LLO manifold, then it just bolts onto the head, then weld the 4g63 downpipe to the stock exhaust. PVC pipe from the hardware store should work for the intake pipe portion as well as a cone filter.

Have a way to tow it home properly planned out before leaving the driveway with it though, unless you/he gets something for fuel tuning.
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

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Have a way to tow it home properly planned out before leaving the driveway with it though, unless you/he gets something for fuel tuning.
For all the further he'll get bolting on a turbo with nothing else, he can just push it back up his driveway :P
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:49 AM   #8
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

Tell him "No".

Give him these reasons above.

Then, do a quality tune-up, a strong fuel system cleaner, Italian Tune-up and put in a quality Syn oil.

Then, let him enjoy what power it is giving him.
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Old 12-07-2014, 12:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

The cost of a turbo on a Saturn would outweigh the value of the car, He would be better off just buying a car with a turbo in it.
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Old 12-07-2014, 01:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

Quote:
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Tell him "No".

Give him these reasons above.

Then, do a quality tune-up, a strong fuel system cleaner, Italian Tune-up and put in a quality Syn oil.

Then, let him enjoy what power it is giving him.

What's an "Italian Tune-up"?
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Old 12-07-2014, 10:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

Thanks guys im just gonna let him read this and hope he gets the hint. I dont think turboing a saturn is a bad idea. But the way he wants to do it is just stupid. I think if he is really gonna do it ill try to convince him to get a first gen. Atleast one issue will be resolved
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:02 PM   #12
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

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Thanks guys im just gonna let him read this and hope he gets the hint. I dont think turboing a saturn is a bad idea. But the way he wants to do it is just stupid. I think if he is really gonna do it ill try to convince him to get a first gen. Atleast one issue will be resolved
Let's say for a moment (though it's unlikely unless he spends a LOT) that he gets a 50% increase in engine output. On a pristine 1.9L DOHC that isn't tired, we'd be looking at 185-ish HP at the crank after an expenditure of a few thousand bucks (assuming he does most of the work himself), a lot of tuning time, and the likelihood of the engine going kaboom. Wake me up when it's over.
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Old 12-08-2014, 12:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

If he blows it up then he solved both issues. no engine = no emissions or turbo issues
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Old 12-08-2014, 12:19 AM   #14
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

In before lawn ornament.
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Old 12-08-2014, 09:08 AM   #15
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Thanks guys im just gonna let him read this and hope he gets the hint. I dont think turboing a saturn is a bad idea. But the way he wants to do it is just stupid.....
You couldn't have said it any better.
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Old 12-08-2014, 10:40 AM   #16
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

I showed this to him a few mins ago and now he is even more determined to prove me wrong , im just gonna sit back wait for him to blow this car up and ill buy it for scrap price and replace the engine. I will finally get to use this 50k mile engine out of this wrecked sedan. excited
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Old 12-08-2014, 10:48 AM   #17
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When and IF this engine blows up, can you take some pictures to post here, for 'show and tell'? I'm sure there are a few here interested in seeing a 'blown' engine. (all puns intended) Ignorance only goes so far while knowledge let man walk on the moon using slide rules long before electronic calculators were though of. I still have my slide rule.........as a keepsake.
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Old 12-08-2014, 10:53 AM   #18
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

Lol i will, what do you think is gonna happen, burned rings and piston or snapped connecting rod?
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Old 12-08-2014, 11:21 AM   #19
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

Ok, moving on to guesses.........

Stock, without a supplemental engine management system and keeping the same map sensor........ I would guess holing pistons and bending valves first, sending a con rod second.
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Old 12-08-2014, 11:27 AM   #20
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Default Re: help me help this idiot please

its going to detonate and shatter the pistons.
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