SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-08-2020, 08:24 PM   #41
454cid
Advanced Member
454cid is a jewel in the rough454cid is a jewel in the rough454cid is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 502
Default Re: Unknown engine noise when cold

Quote:
Originally Posted by toggenburg View Post
I also pour in a full quart of ATF in each oil change on all cars since the 1970's.
It won't hurt a thing, but it will clean up an engine, better and cheaper than Marvel Mystery oil, or Rislone products. Never had any engine opened up for any reason yet. That's on many engines and cumulative mileage easily of over 1M miles. It won't hurt your engine to keep ATF in the oil year round.
That's a lot of ATF for our engines.
...
2000 SL2 Automatic (back on the road) 17X,XXX miles.
1999 Chevy K3500
454cid is online now   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 01-08-2020, 09:28 PM   #42
Waiex191
Master Member
Waiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really nice
 
Waiex191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Poplar Grove, IL
Posts: 2,481

1999 SL2
1998 SC2
Default Re: Unknown engine noise when cold

Quote:
Originally Posted by 454cid View Post
that's a lot of atf for our engines.
~22%!
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
Waiex191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2020, 10:20 PM   #43
cgg17
Advanced Member
cgg17 is just really nicecgg17 is just really nicecgg17 is just really nicecgg17 is just really nice
 
cgg17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 665

1995 SL2
1998 SL2
Default Re: Unknown engine noise when cold

Based off of the noise, I would be more inclined to say that it is the timing chain. Out 99 had a sporratic noise that sounded like that, but not quite as bad.
...
1994 Sl2 5spd: 56,576 (Totaled 1/10/2018)
1995 Sl2 5spd Manual Swap: 150,062
1999 Sl2 4spd: 98,8xx
cgg17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 12:36 AM   #44
can0fspam
Member
can0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 58

1999 SL2
Default Re: Unknown engine noise when cold

I found a thread: http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=234263

... in which a user suspects his timing chain is bad. However the video he posted sounds a lot like mine. Like, almost identical. Later commenters told him it sounded like lifters and he was able to resolve the issue by running different oil and putting some additive through to clean out the lifters.

I finally found my nice long handled screwdriver and listened on the intake and exhaust sides of the head -- as close as I could get to all 8 lifters.
I definitely heard noises through the handle. Most of them sounded like metallic whirling in-time with the "chain" noise, but one of them on the front was distinctly clicking through the screwdriver.

I'm almost relieved it seems like it *might* not be a chain ready to let loose. Just rolled over 189,000 so I think I'll add some ATF and change the oil soon. The new oil is going to be a nicer brand than the cheap walmart special I've been using...

Of course, my apologies for dragging this thread out, but the documentation of the issue might help someone else later on...
can0fspam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 07:34 AM   #45
Waiex191
Master Member
Waiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really nice
 
Waiex191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Poplar Grove, IL
Posts: 2,481

1999 SL2
1998 SC2
Default Re: Unknown engine noise when cold

Quote:
Originally Posted by can0fspam View Post
... but the documentation of the issue might help someone else later on...
This is what it's all about!
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
Waiex191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 09:06 AM   #46
toggenburg
Master Member
toggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud of
 
toggenburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains of Bedford, Virginia. Born once? Die twice. ------ Born twice? Die once.
Posts: 3,294

2001 SL1
Default Re: Unknown engine noise when cold

Yes, ~22% ATF in all oil changes.

Tell you what, here is a direct quote right from marvel mystery oil's website itself.

"For example, if your engine has a 5-quart oil capacity, replace one of the quarts with a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil. Repeat at every oil change for optimal performance. Marvel Mystery Oil can be added to engine oil 300 to 500 miles before your next oil change to supplement sludge removal and enhance engine cleaning.
How to use - Marvel Mystery Oil
https://www.marvelmysteryoil.com gasoline-engine automobile"

I repeat, iv'e done this with any brand ATF for decades. Each oil change on all my cars and kids vehicles too. Even on my Audi 5000S and '68 Corvette with IIRC the L88 engine.
Only then, when they would rust out (Chicago rust belt) would I get rid of the vehicle, and even then, their engines had never, never needed any internal work done even up to 331,000+ miles on that engine.

You can lead a many a car owner to water (truth), but you cannot get many to drink (to actually overcome fear and to try something different that works).

Last edited by toggenburg; 01-10-2020 at 09:20 AM.
toggenburg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 09:33 AM   #47
can0fspam
Member
can0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 58

1999 SL2
Default Re: Unknown engine noise when cold

Quote:
Originally Posted by toggenburg View Post
Yes, ~22% ATF in all oil changes.

Tell you what, here is a direct quote right from marvel mystery oil's website itself.

"For example, if your engine has a 5-quart oil capacity, replace one of the quarts with a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil. Repeat at every oil change for optimal performance. Marvel Mystery Oil can be added to engine oil 300 to 500 miles before your next oil change to supplement sludge removal and enhance engine cleaning.
How to use - Marvel Mystery Oil
https://www.marvelmysteryoil.com gasoline-engine automobile"

I repeat, iv'e done this with any brand ATF for decades. Each oil change on all my cars and kids vehicles too. Even on my Audi 5000S and '68 Corvette with IIRC the L88 engine.
Only then, when they would rust out (Chicago rust belt) would I get rid of the vehicle, and even then, their engines had never, never needed any internal work done even up to 331,000+ miles on that engine.

You can lead a many a car owner to water (truth), but you cannot get many to drink (to actually overcome fear and to try something different that works).
Are you saying you replace a quart with ATF before changing, or you put in ATF with fresh oil for the entire interval?

I could see the first one working well but I would be concerned about the weight of the ATF for the second one if it's that much of your oil.
can0fspam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 01:49 PM   #48
toggenburg
Master Member
toggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud of
 
toggenburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains of Bedford, Virginia. Born once? Die twice. ------ Born twice? Die once.
Posts: 3,294

2001 SL1
Default Re: Unknown engine noise when cold

To be clear: with the fresh oil for the entire OCI interval.
i.e.
An oil change with a 5 qt capacity including filter change:
I put in 4 quarts of whatever synthetic OR dino oil, plus 1 quart Dexron III.
I then drain it out only at the 3000 mile interval, and repeat as stated.
Done this procedure continuously since the early 1970's without engine issues.
Also, until 18 years ago, I was in the Chicagoland area and always passed the annual automobile 'breath analyzer' test without failure.
I don't know if they still do that up there or not though, because Virginia where I am, does not require it at all.

Last edited by toggenburg; 01-10-2020 at 01:55 PM.
toggenburg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2020, 03:53 PM   #49
can0fspam
Member
can0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 58

1999 SL2
Default Re: Unknown engine noise when cold

We've got an update:
I pulled the valve cover again and checked for tension in the chain up top as well as down inside the timing cover.
There was significant enough play up top, and the chain was almost completely loose below the front cam gear.
Below the back cam gear, it was fully tight. This makes sense - I think the tensioner is on this side.
However this seems bad enough to me that I will put a new chain in it ASAP. There's enough movement around the front gear that it wouldn't be hard to jump a tooth.

Video (let me know if the quality is too poor):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEaEwo_BXxs

Unless this amount of play is in-spec, I think this tells me all I need to know about the condition of the chain/tensioner.
can0fspam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2020, 02:09 PM   #50
can0fspam
Member
can0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of lightcan0fspam is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 58

1999 SL2
Default Re: Unknown engine noise when cold

For documentation purposes:
I replaced the timing chain and the noise disappeared entirely. I haven't yet diagnosed what part of the timing set went bad. I'm guessing it was the tensioner because it wasn't quite fully extended (so the chain probably wasn't too long). The guides were both worn in pretty deep too.

If your car makes a noise like my videos - even if you remove the serpentine belt - it's probably your timing chain.
can0fspam is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Unknown Engine Problem Ndubs S-Series Tech 5 07-21-2013 11:26 AM
'07 V6 Engine vibration and noise after cold start. atikovi Vue Tech 2 11-28-2011 06:08 PM
Unknown Check Engine tranny problems ownedinthedome S-Series Tech 4 08-26-2010 11:32 PM
Unknown Noise 00 SL1 Please LOOK! xr650r S-Series Tech 3 02-01-2007 01:00 AM
Cold Start Engine Noise 2005 Ion2 kbg1 Ion General 7 10-14-2006 03:34 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:06 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.