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Old 03-07-2012, 03:44 PM   #1
bd692000
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Default 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

My wife went out yesterday to go to the Dr and she said it started just fine then she put the car in reverse let out the clutch and gave it a lil gas and the car just died and has not run since.. this was yesterday. Since then I have replaced the Crankshaft Position Sensor, Throttle Body Position Sensor, I replaced the plugs,wires and both coil packs, I cleaned out the throttle body with carberator cleaner and added some fuel injector cleaner. After I replaced all these things I took off the boots #1 and #4 at the coil pack end and had my wife try to start it. I do get spark as far as that test is concerned. I don't have the equipment nor the knowledge to test much more extensively. I tried the WOT technique with no improvement whatsoever. I purchased a fuel filter today for it but when I got under the car to remove it apparently someone had changed it before me because there was one bolt busted off and I was scared to try to crank the other one for fear of it breaking. I don't have a tap and die set or a drill on hand. I also crawled under the car to listen for the fuel pump and it works also.. The car sounds like its not getting combustion. it rolls over but it won't even try to fire now. Yesterday it sounded like it wanted to start. I also pulled every single fuse out and checked them they were all good. I'm at a loss now. I have no idea where or what to try now.. Please guys help..lol Thanks for being here.
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

Ask her if it sounded a bit more obnoxiously loud around the motor before it died.

If it sounded normal, go with ECTS. Out of principle it should be changed anyway.

If it got really noisy, the timing chain may have gone.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

Did you try the spark test before or after the CPS was changed? funny that it would just die as soon as the clutch was let off and you gave it some gas...

In any case, did you make sure the CPS was seated properly? if not there ya go. In addition, you may also want to put a rag over the schrader valve on the fuel rail with the key in RUN. if you get a healthy spray of gas that verifies the fuel... just because the pump runs doesn't mean you have a clean fuel system...

You also checked the ignition coils/module for corrosion and damage right?

and to expand on Razzle Dazzle's post, you'll want to turn the crank pulley by hand using a breaker bar. Turn it CLOCKWISE with all spark plugs out of the engine. if it's easy to turn then the engine is good, otherwise if it's hard to turn it's siezed.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:58 AM   #4
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

Having spark means the cps was replaced correctly and fully seated otherwise there wouldn't be any spark at all.

Replace the faulty coolant sensor since none of the plugs were pulled; anytime several attempts are made to start (a cold) engine) can result is flooding. Pull the plugs and see. If the injector fuse isn't blown (preventing injectors from working) then the engine quickly flooded and will be seen and smelled with plug removal. Very few drivers are familiar with flooded engines and holding the throttle wide open while starting.

The original round nosed faulty plastic coolant sensor causes rich and flooded engines.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:09 AM   #5
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

I did not check for spark before I replaced the cps. I figured I would just go down the list and replace everything I could. The cps however must be seated properly cause I checked for spark on the coils I took off boots #1 and #4 and #2 and #3 and I do get a spark jump from all coil towers. Where is the ignition coil located? Sorry if that's a dumb question I'm a back yard mechanic and I'm not 100% sure where it is located. According to the receipt from when I bought the plugs wires and coil packs the coil packs are called ignition coils.. If that is indeed the case then I replaced both of them they are brand new and the connectors for both of them were clean. I checked the rubber rings on the connectors as well and they were fine so I did not replace them with the new ones.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:14 AM   #6
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Having spark means the cps was replaced correctly and fully seated otherwise there wouldn't be any spark at all.

Replace the faulty coolant sensor since none of the plugs were pulled; anytime several attempts are made to start (a cold) engine) can result is flooding. Pull the plugs and see. If the injector fuse isn't blown (preventing injectors from working) then the engine quickly flooded and will be seen and smelled with plug removal. Very few drivers are familiar with flooded engines and holding the throttle wide open while starting.

The original round nosed faulty plastic coolant sensor causes rich and flooded engines.
I am going to buy the ECTS today and change that and praying. I also just figured out where the Schrader Valve is located but I have a question about it. I'm trying to figure out if I can use the Schrader Valve to test for fuel line pressure even though the car will not start? If so how do I go about doing that? Thanks for your time and patience guys and I appreciate all the responses. I hope some day I can repay all of your thoughts on this subject. Who knows maybe someday I will know how to fix something on your car!
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:26 AM   #7
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

I was also reading about the Power Control Module and the Ignition Control Module would either of those be plausible for the issue at hand? As I said I am getting spark so I don't know if either of those could still be bad given that there is spark. My wife says it didn't make a single sound it just died out and would not start again. I will change the fuel filter and the Engine Collant Temperature Sensor today. Thanks again for all your help.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:43 AM   #8
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

If the fuel system is working correctly, you should have about 45 psi at the schrader valve key on, engine not running. A fuel pressure gauge from the local parts store is ideal, but in a pinch, just putting a rag over the valve and blipping it open with a phillips screwdriver will tell you if you have at least some pressure there.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

The ignition control module is where the two ignition coils plug in to. Since you have spark on both coils the icm is working.

My remarks about the cps and spark were not directed to you but to another member not realizing how spark occurs with a good cps. A failed cps or incorrectly seated cps will not allow the pcm to operate and fail a spark test.
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

There's only 2 parts it could be right now considering the parts you threw at it, one's 10 dollars, the other. Well if the time went you're looking at a guaranteed 140. That's only if you got the miracle result I got. Mine only went by one or two degrees before I got the car and the valves survived. In most cases when a Saturn motor loses its time, since it's an interference motor, it wrecks the valves.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

Okay guys so today I changed the Engine Collant Temperature Sensor and checked the schrader valve which definitly had lots of pressure..lol I wasn't quite prepared for all that but none the less the fuel lines are working properly. After I installed the ECTS I now get some form of combustion but wouldn't you know my luck it started raining just as the battery died.. so now I have to wait for a jump when its not pooring out..lol Just wanted to let you guys know what all I have been doing. Thus far I have done everything mentioned here in. The only thing I have not done is try to hand crank the motor but I feel strongly that its not froze.. It's turning over. Right now what I am wondering is if the injectors are working. Or if its the timing. How could I test these two things?
I'm not smelling fuel in the throttle body assembly is why I'm thinking injectors.. I did check all the fuses and none were blown but is there like a relay or something for the injectors? Thanks again guys.. What if I try spraying starter fluid in the throttle body while the throttle is at WOT? I'm just bouncing idea's off you guys.. Thanks so much just for being here.. I would be so lost without you guys.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
The ignition control module is where the two ignition coils plug in to. Since you have spark on both coils the icm is working.

My remarks about the cps and spark were not directed to you but to another member not realizing how spark occurs with a good cps. A failed cps or incorrectly seated cps will not allow the pcm to operate and fail a spark test.
So that means it is not the PCM or the ICM right? because I definitly have spark and I definitely have gas coming to the engine..
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

Based on your spark test, ICM is working. PCM failures on these cars are extremely rare. Once you get your battery charged, try spraying starting fluid into the throttle body while an assistant cranks the engine and holds the gas pedal down just a little. Report back whether the engine fires.
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:30 AM   #14
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

It's absolute, if your ECTS didn't fix it, your time is gone. There are very few reasons for no compression.

If you still have no compression you either burned a valve(In which case it would still be capable of running), or your timing chain is off. Which is the more likely of the two. If your chain is off, you need to pull your head, and check your cylinders and valves. Odds would be the valves are toast, I was lucky when I bought mine with a dead motor and found the valves in tact.

Saturn runs an interference motor though, so your chances in the case of time, would be that at least 4-8 valves are toast. And to top it off there's a chance a cylinder cracks.

But for now, hope it starts when you got the battery up.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:02 AM   #15
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

Well I did indeed try to jump it this morning and I used starter fluid. I'm getting combustion but it will not start. after I attempted that I attempted WOT start and all I got was what sounded like a back fire or something of that nature. I fear for the worst. I'm at a total loss and I'm going to have to call a garage I think. If you guys can think of anything else let me know. Thanks again for all your time and efforts to help me resolve this issue.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:59 AM   #16
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

What you're describing seems to be fuel related even though fuel pressure is spraying out the fuel test valve. The injectors need to operate and there is only one injector fuse to check for. If this fuse is blown then all injectors will never fire. Removing the spark plugs can help as you can see or smell fuel on them if fuel is being injected. Part of troubleshooting are the details, the small things overlooked like seeing fuel spray out the test valve but never checking all the fuses. A member just posted finding a blown fuse after initially posting that all fuses were good. What he failed to do was to remove each fuse and check them one by one. Overlooking the small things just misleads everyone...............
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:41 AM   #17
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

I completely agree with you but I assure you I pulled every single fuse out.. They were all good. however I did not pull out a spark plug and check to see if it smells like gas. How would you recommend I go about that? try to start the car and then pull out one plug and smell or do I pull out all plugs and check them individually? I will go back over the fuses again but I have pulled each one out twice to verify. So there is no relay for fuel injectors then? It's not at all possible for all the injectors to go at once right? also I was thinking about something I did to it before I replaced all these parts. I took the throttle body off and cleaned it thoroughly with Carberator cleaner. Then I had my neighbor hold WOT while I sprayed Carberator cleaner in the throttle body. This throttle body was very greasy on the inside.. almost like oil. I'm wondering if I shouldn't have sprayed carb cleaner in there but instead starter fluid.. I sprayed quite a bit down there. I'm wondering now if I could potentially get some gas and squirt it down the throttle body while cranking the engine to see if it would fire like that..lol Again just throwing idea's out here. Once again thanks so much for all your posts and replies.
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:51 AM   #18
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

Fully charge the battery on a slow charger, so you know you've got good "crank" while testing. Remove the PCM B fuse (or the INJ?), remove all spark plugs and crank it a few times, to expel anything you've sprayed in through the throttle body that might still be in there. Reinstall everything and crank the key as normal a few times, as if to try to start the engine. THEN remove the spark plugs and sniff for the smell of fuel. Check all four. That will tell you whether each injector is firing.

Once you get this figured out, if it appears that you've been getting fuel the whole time, you should change the oil after you've resolved the starting issue. If it's been feeding fuel and not burning it, some of that fuel has washed past the rings and gone into the sump oil. Gasoline dilutes oil and compromises its ability to lubricate, and good lubrication is critical to long engine life.
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

I am pleased to say that after taking out all four plugs and the fuel injector fuse and cranking to blow excess starter/carb fluid out and cranking on it for about 5 minutes I put the plugs back in and the fuse back in. She spit n sputtered for about 3 minutes of cranking and then the miraculous happened! She Fired! She's running beautifully. Thank God it wasn't the timing chain.. Although I am still going to save up some cash and get the water pump and the timing chain replaced ASAP. But I just wanted to say thank all of you guys for your endless plethora of knowledge. I'm so greatful to have a place like this to bounce idea's off of. Again from the bottom of my heart and my families ty ty ty.
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: 98 Saturn SL 1.9 SOHC Manual Tranny will not start.

Replace the water pump only if it leaking. You'll know when coolant is lost but you won't know until inspecting the entire cooling system.

Replace the timing chain only if you can tell its rattling or making more noise that isn't normal. The only way to tell is to remove the cam cover to look at the top end and cams otherwise the timing chain cover will have to come off to fully inspect wear, slop, etc.. Most timing chains last the life of an engine with few exceptions.
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