SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-11-2020, 09:48 PM   #1
MiSaturn
Senior Member
MiSaturn is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,285

2002 SL
1993 SL2
Default Flaky Rotor

Wondering if anyone else has seen this before (I hadn't). Less than two years on current brake job, noticed stopping power had fallen off. Checked one wheel, noticed good amount of pad left - probably 15-20k and was going to call it quits.

Pulled off passenger side wheel and felt some irregularities on the inner portion of rotor (see pic). Pulled it off and was amazed to see that 50%+ of surface of rotor was gone, appearing to be in process of flaking off.

Think they were Duralast/Autozone rotors with NAPA ceramics this time around. Glad I had set of nice e-coated Wagner rotors and old school semi-metallic Wagner pads sitting on shelf. Lousy stopping power compared to ceramics, but much easier on the rotors.

With 350,000 I always say "this is the last time I'm ever going to have to replace this part..." and probably cheaped out with the Autozone/Napa parts I used. Lesson learned.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Rotor.jpg (85.4 KB, 26 views)
MiSaturn is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 09-11-2020, 10:11 PM   #2
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,508
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

What did the pad look like?
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2020, 11:57 PM   #3
Waiex191
Master Member
Waiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really nice
 
Waiex191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Poplar Grove, IL
Posts: 2,654

1999 SL2
1998 SC2
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

Been there, done that, got the T shirt.


From:
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...&postcount=363

I think some parts are just crap. Too much china.
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
Waiex191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2020, 09:46 AM   #4
bumpdraft
Master Member
bumpdraft is just really nicebumpdraft is just really nicebumpdraft is just really nicebumpdraft is just really nice
 
bumpdraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,132
 

1998 SC2
1998 SW2
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

I always expect rotors to last one (1) winter driving season and need replacing in the summer, when working on cars is pleasant.
...
Competition Clutch 10Lb. Flywheel. 14 stalls to date (and loving it).
Oil use is 1 ounce per 100 miles with ~230,000 miles on the engine
bumpdraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2020, 10:02 AM   #5
Waiex191
Master Member
Waiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really nice
 
Waiex191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Poplar Grove, IL
Posts: 2,654

1999 SL2
1998 SC2
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

I average about 50,000 miles on a set of pads and rotors. Except that one in the picture above.
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
Waiex191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2020, 10:47 AM   #6
lrbraner
Member
lrbraner is a jewel in the roughlrbraner is a jewel in the roughlrbraner is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Ft. Wayne, IN
Posts: 186

2002 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
2003 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

It is called "rust jacking"
Go to Raybestos website, there is a video about what causes it.
https://www.brakepartsinc.com/raybes...to-videos.html
...
2002 L300 Sedan
2003 LW300 Wagon
2005 L300 Sedan
lrbraner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2020, 11:01 AM   #7
454cid
Advanced Member
454cid is a jewel in the rough454cid is a jewel in the rough454cid is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 610
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

The rotors that I took off my car looked like that, but the car had been sitting a year so I didn't think too much of it.

I hope the rotors on my truck don't do that.... those are a major pain to swap. The unit bearings have to come off and all the studs.
...
2000 SL2 Automatic (back on the road) 17X,XXX miles.
1999 Chevy K3500
454cid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2020, 04:56 PM   #8
MiSaturn
Senior Member
MiSaturn is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,285

2002 SL
1993 SL2
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
What did the pad look like?
Amazingly normal. Might have been some additional wear due to the rough surface, but otherwise no defect on the pad side to speak of.

It looks like the metal started to delaminate, prob due to plain old garbage metallurgy... . Would agree that I've seen more issues with Chinese rotors than ones from Mexico (Brembo) and Japan (whoever makes OE for Subaru). Can't recall last time I found American made ones.
MiSaturn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 11:34 AM   #9
PrestonIII
Member
PrestonIII is a jewel in the roughPrestonIII is a jewel in the roughPrestonIII is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA
Posts: 190

1994 SL2
1994 SL2
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

If a rotor only wears on ONE side, the problem is usually a caliper slide that is sticking or stuck.

When this happens, the caliper applies force to the pads when the brakes are applied, but when it's released, one side can't back off the rotor because it's held in place by the slide not releasing. So, one pad wears away while the other looks "normal".

Unfortunately, this seems to be common on Saturn's because of the way the slide is designed, with the pin inside a rubber bushing through the caliper bracket. This design is fairly unique to Saturn. Most other GM cars eliminate the rubber part completely with the pin sliding directly in the bracket (then rust becomes a problem when the seals fail).

Some not-so-knowledgeable mechanics grease the slide with petroleum based grease. This grease causes the rubber bushing to swell up and thus restrict motion of the pin through it, often locking the slide in place. Thus just one pad wears out, and eats the rotor. Always use non-petroleum based grease on brake parts. Lithium is a good substitute.

You can verify a stuck/sticking slide by how tight the slide pin (caliper bolt) comes out when you're wrenching on it trying to remove it. If it's too tight for your wrench to spin easily, then it's definitely too tight to allow the caliper to relax away from the rotor. Replace the rubber bushings (caliper hardware kit). They're an S.O.B. to replace, and they're often overlooked!

If BOTH sides of the rotor wear out, it's likely a frozen caliper, or the owner simply drove the car too long on worn out brake pads.

Preston

Last edited by PrestonIII; 09-13-2020 at 11:41 AM.
PrestonIII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 12:13 PM   #10
00_SL1
Member
00_SL1 is a jewel in the rough00_SL1 is a jewel in the rough00_SL1 is a jewel in the rough
 
00_SL1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 134
 

2001 SL2
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

I just replaced two flaky rotors last night. These rotors were new in 2016, and have just around 25,000 miles on them. This Saturn lives outside 24/7, and is a daily driver, and I don't always get a driveway spot to park on so it sits on grass the majority of the time.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCF6218.jpg (110.9 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF6219.jpg (119.2 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF6220.jpg (132.5 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF6221.jpg (125.5 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF6222.jpg (82.3 KB, 13 views)
...
01 SL2
04 Silverado
06 Uplander
05 Express
00_SL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 12:19 PM   #11
Waiex191
Master Member
Waiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really nice
 
Waiex191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Poplar Grove, IL
Posts: 2,654

1999 SL2
1998 SC2
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

Oddly, I had this problem even though we had replaced the guide pins and bushings, used sylglide, and put it back together correctly. I'm sticking with my theory of crap chinese parts.

I'm not sold on rust jacking either - the inside doesn't get air to dry off? Seems like plenty of air, CF, and heat to dry the rotors.

Crap parts! We need to bring manufacturing back onshore.
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
Waiex191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 12:30 PM   #12
00_SL1
Member
00_SL1 is a jewel in the rough00_SL1 is a jewel in the rough00_SL1 is a jewel in the rough
 
00_SL1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 134
 

2001 SL2
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

Surprisingly the pad wear was pretty even inside to outside. The right side was slightly better than the left side. Didn't get a very good pic of the left, but you can see the right side well enough. The caliper slide bolts have a ton of rust as well, and the right side was hardly sliding at all. It's going to be good to have all of this replaced before winter hits.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCF6199.jpg (129.7 KB, 13 views)
...
01 SL2
04 Silverado
06 Uplander
05 Express
00_SL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2020, 02:47 AM   #13
TomM96
Senior Member
TomM96 will become famous soon enoughTomM96 will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,789
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

I Do think the ceramic pads are too harsh/abrasive.
Good semi-metallic is more like it....
...

The fotos do suggest either the alloy material (cast iron) is off, or , more likely,
the heat treatment was unsatisfactory.
Years ago, heat treating was somewhat challenging, as sensors/instruments were expensive (now cheap).

I would not be surprised that the Chinese are using cast alloys with very high scrap content... that might well become an active corrosion cell when contacted with salty water. The heat would also activate the corrosive reaction ... which might proceed constantly thereafter.

Normal cast iron is not subject to much/fast corrosion, generally.
TomM96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2020, 09:20 AM   #14
Waiex191
Master Member
Waiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really niceWaiex191 is just really nice
 
Waiex191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Poplar Grove, IL
Posts: 2,654

1999 SL2
1998 SC2
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

Another vote for crap parts!
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
Waiex191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2020, 09:34 AM   #15
craftsman70
Member
craftsman70 will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 93
 

2000 SL1
1998 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Flaky Rotor

I also have to replace rotors at least every 3 years living in the rust belt. I usually don't see the flaking but have on one or two occasions. I really think that flaking is poor quality rotors. I've been buying coated centric and or raybestos rotors which are a little better but as I said, still end up replacing pads and rotors every few years. Seems like the rotors rust out long before the pads are worn out.
craftsman70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Flaky steering kdhunter S-Series Tech 10 10-04-2013 03:08 PM
Flaky Bumpers IONfan2 S-Series General 5 11-03-2008 12:57 PM
Flaky Cruise Control bigseacow S-Series Tech 12 08-21-2008 02:24 AM
Flaky Sunroof Operation ChiliPepperSC2 S-Series Tech 0 10-15-2007 08:11 PM
Flaky Turn Signal/DRL bryceb04 Ion General 0 02-15-2007 09:08 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:00 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.