SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-07-2015, 08:26 AM   #1
sdowney717
Advanced Member
sdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 739
Default Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

I found no sludge inside except a tiny amount on top where it settled out.
One solenoid, has an ohm of 2.2, so replacing that one.
other than that, nothing I can notice. I did not take the valves out of the valve body, they all seem to move smoothly.
Sometimes it slam shifts all gears, sometimes the shifts feel like a giant spring getting unwound and wound, sometimes it is fine.

Ordered 2 valve body spacer gaskets from Amazon prime.

Quote:
ACDelco 21003530 GM Original Equipment Automatic Transmission Control Valve Body Spacer Plate Gasket
And here in Norfolk, one 21003344 solenoid valve, I used this site and found one local to me in Norfolk for $46 including taxes.
http://oemcats.com/oem-parts/21003344.html
The other idea is that input shaft nut under the side cover, what is the likelyhood it is loose?

How much trans fluid goes back in after a drain?
valve body


trans gears


I plan to reattach the gasket pieces using some sealer.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 06-07-2015, 09:17 AM   #2
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,693
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

Put back as much as you drained out. A loose nut is not that uncommon and all the solenoids in the world and/or nut tightening will not fix worn out clutches.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 09:53 AM   #3
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,250
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

Nice pictures! Post one showing the other side of the larger VB piece and maybe we can tell if this VB already has the Sonnax sleeve for the Pressure Regulator section. There is a little retaining clip installed with that upgrade/repair that shows down in the oil passage.
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 11:06 AM   #4
sdowney717
Advanced Member
sdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 739
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

Sure, I doubt anyone has done any work to this.
Worn clutches I dont think they are, it does not slip at all.

Do you mean inside a solenoid passage? I dont notice anything,



sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 11:36 AM   #5
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,693
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

The clutches do not slip until failed, this shows up as uncorrectable slam shifting.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 11:42 AM   #6
sdowney717
Advanced Member
sdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 739
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

Well, I suppose will do what I can. I have rebuilt 5 AT over the years.
Last one I did was 4L60E.

If I have to, which I dont think so, is there any odd specialty tool needed or giant 800 pound spring like in the 42RE Jeep overdrive?
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 11:55 AM   #7
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,870
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

Try contacting Special Forces. He answers private messages and seems to be the best xmission expert for Saturns, sharing info unlike others.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 12:03 PM   #8
SL19302
Master Member
SL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to all
 
SL19302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Drums, PA
Posts: 3,350

2000 SW2
2002 SL1
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

The Solenoid that has an ohm reading of 2.2 needs to get tossed, As far as the looks of the valve body that tells you nothing, The problem that occurs is excessive clearances inside the pressure regulator and boost valve bore causing low line pressure when the trans is hot and the fluid gets thin causing reverse to slam, The more slamming that occurs the input shaft nut comes loose causing more aggravation. Replace the failed solenoid and hope for the best. If shifting problems persist replace the valve body.
...
2015 Subaru Forester Limited "Prinny"
2000 SW2 Still Running Strong- 160K Traded In
2002 SL1 Still has Its Training Wheels on at 88K Traded In


CHECK YOUR OIL!
SL19302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 01:00 PM   #9
sdowney717
Advanced Member
sdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of lightsdowney717 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 739
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

Thanks, I will be getting these parts midweek, will take some days to post back what happened. Everything looks very clean to me, hope their is no significant valve wear. Old fluid came out clear and red.

The poor shifting happened just sudden, one day, before it was perfect. Been bad for about a week. I see people buying a new input shaft nut, why not tighten the old with maybe locktight?
Did you grind a socket to fit? what size is that nut?
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 01:46 PM   #10
satlite440
Senior Member
satlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud of
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: kent wa
Posts: 1,053

2001 SL2
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

cluches don't slip unless there is a gross hydroilc leak in the cluch circuit causeing the piston to be unable to apply enough pressure to keep the cluch pack applied....


the only difficult part I had rebuilding mine was piston installation..a lip wizard tool is invaluable..i read you have done these before so I am wondering if you used a press to install the plate and compress the return spring too...my snap press was not strong enough to do it...the only tool I think I will find&buy for next time will be the holder for the input shaft nut
...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership
satlite440 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 02:19 PM   #11
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,870
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

Oops, my bad. At least two members with experience in auto xmission diagnosing and repairs........
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 03:01 PM   #12
Chazberry
Master Member
Chazberry is a splendid one to beholdChazberry is a splendid one to beholdChazberry is a splendid one to beholdChazberry is a splendid one to beholdChazberry is a splendid one to beholdChazberry is a splendid one to beholdChazberry is a splendid one to behold
 
Chazberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,103

1995 SW2
2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Do you mean inside a solenoid passage? I dont notice anything,
This is what gets done with the Sonnax updates . . .
https://s3.amazonaws.com/sonnax-dev/...SC-TAAT-IN.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
The poor shifting happened just sudden, one day, before it was perfect. Been bad for about a week.
This just happened with my '95 SW2. A new LP Solenoid has it shifting like a champ again. If you have no issues with Reverse or your 2nd gear shift, the Nut is probably OK.
Chazberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 03:19 PM   #13
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,250
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

Sorry, I gave you bum info. The first pictures of the VB parts are the correct side to see that Sonnax retaining clip, but you have to be looking at just the right angle, it's kind of buried in there.
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 03:58 PM   #14
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,693
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Well, I suppose will do what I can. I have rebuilt 5 AT over the years.
Last one I did was 4L60E.

If I have to, which I dont think so, is there any odd specialty tool needed or giant 800 pound spring like in the 42RE Jeep overdrive?
You can not DIY the auto trans rebuild as there are TC shaft seals that must be formed after install and a socket will not catch it. The cost of a decent rebuild kit exceeds the cost of a good used transmission.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 04:00 PM   #15
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,693
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Thanks, I will be getting these parts midweek, will take some days to post back what happened. Everything looks very clean to me, hope their is no significant valve wear. Old fluid came out clear and red.

The poor shifting happened just sudden, one day, before it was perfect. Been bad for about a week. I see people buying a new input shaft nut, why not tighten the old with maybe locktight?
Did you grind a socket to fit? what size is that nut?
It will not hold torque is why you have to replace it.

You can not tell ATF viscosity or viscosity stability by looking at the color, clarity and smell. Thin fluid causes slam shifting.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 05:46 PM   #16
satlite440
Senior Member
satlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud of
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: kent wa
Posts: 1,053

2001 SL2
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

not true old nuc..I got my masteroverhaul kit fron transtar for 199.included pistons/fibers&steels..the hard parts were another 160..while you are a very valuable asset to the bord I think auto trans is not your strong point. and after adding a new converter I was under 600 for a new rebuilt trans for my oldest daughter...now do I have resources available to me the average bord member does not yes...im a gm master cirted auto trans&ase auto trans tech...with acces to the Saturn j-tool box...however there are ways to size scarf square cut seals on the input shaft if you haven't got the sizeing tools...the hardest part of the rebuild I found chalangeing was the changing of the pistons in the 1st,2nd,3rd&4th cluch pac's as my snap press was not strong enough to compress the return springs.so I has to use a press..the only other issues were finding/sourceing the plastic cage support bearings under the 3rd&4th and 2nd cluches and a pair of torington bearings that went between the 3rd cluch &gear...the hardest thing will be to find internal hard parts as this trans is discontinued and gm vintage parts has few parts left.requrieing searching trans recyclers to source good used hard parts and there are no aftermarket sources....this is why most tranny shops will not rebuild them



and no I did not use dex3...I used dex 6 from the start soaking my fibers..so no compatabilty issues
...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership

Last edited by satlite440; 06-07-2015 at 05:55 PM.
satlite440 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 06:41 PM   #17
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,693
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

Quote:
Originally Posted by satlite440 View Post
not true old nuc..I got my masteroverhaul kit fron transtar for 199.included pistons/fibers&steels..the hard parts were another 160..while you are a very valuable asset to the bord I think auto trans is not your strong point. and after adding a new converter I was under 600 for a new rebuilt trans for my oldest daughter...now do I have resources available to me the average bord member does not yes...im a gm master cirted auto trans&ase auto trans tech...with acces to the Saturn j-tool box...however there are ways to size scarf square cut seals on the input shaft if you haven't got the sizeing tools...the hardest part of the rebuild I found chalangeing was the changing of the pistons in the 1st,2nd,3rd&4th cluch pac's as my snap press was not strong enough to compress the return springs.so I has to use a press..the only other issues were finding/sourceing the plastic cage support bearings under the 3rd&4th and 2nd cluches and a pair of torington bearings that went between the 3rd cluch &gear...the hardest thing will be to find internal hard parts as this trans is discontinued and gm vintage parts has few parts left.requrieing searching trans recyclers to source good used hard parts and there are no aftermarket sources....this is why most tranny shops will not rebuild them



and no I did not use dex3...I used dex 6 from the start soaking my fibers..so no compatabilty issues
You spent ~600 at dealer cost for parts. The average person will not get those prices. A very low mileage auto can be had for 250 or so all day long if you look. That looks like about 350 in savings off of prices you can not get if you are not a shop or dealer. Actually complete rebuild kits are very hard to find at any price for either transmission.

You also have no clue as to what I do or do not know about auto transmissions and if you want to start making unfounded accusations then have at it. Got anything else to add?

I am quite aware of the complete lack for short service life parts for both the auto and manual transmissions. I am also aware of the various parts suppliers attitude of screwing the individual buyer of these parts blue. For example the shift fork pads for the manual selectors quoted at $5.12 ea recently plus an obnoxiously high shipping charge.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 10:15 PM   #18
SL19302
Master Member
SL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to all
 
SL19302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Drums, PA
Posts: 3,350

2000 SW2
2002 SL1
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Thanks, I will be getting these parts midweek, will take some days to post back what happened. Everything looks very clean to me, hope their is no significant valve wear. Old fluid came out clear and red.

The poor shifting happened just sudden, one day, before it was perfect. Been bad for about a week. I see people buying a new input shaft nut, why not tighten the old with maybe locktight?
Did you grind a socket to fit? what size is that nut?
If the Solenoid with 2.2 ohms happened to be the line pressure solenoid that's most likely where the sudden slamming occurred, I have not read back to see if that's the one that has out of spec resistance, Look at the bus plate and the valve body plug for burnt terminals as this will cause your new solenoid to fail shortly after replacement. Just an FYI Saturn called those 5 units inside the valve body actuators.
...
2015 Subaru Forester Limited "Prinny"
2000 SW2 Still Running Strong- 160K Traded In
2002 SL1 Still has Its Training Wheels on at 88K Traded In


CHECK YOUR OIL!
SL19302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 12:37 AM   #19
satlite440
Senior Member
satlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud of
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: kent wa
Posts: 1,053

2001 SL2
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

again not true.my dealer does not have a resale account with transtar nor with any of the other recyclers or suppliers I worked with..as the dealer will only use gm parts.so i was an over the counter customer..did they give me a break i don't know for sure.they might have as i knew the lingo had the proper name and call out numbers of both the gm and natpro and transtar illustration numbers along with the gm part numbers..dealing with trans part places is defanatly not like going to napa..so they might have i didn't ask nor care i needed these parts and would have paid what ever they wanted as i was behind the 8ball and under a deadline to have a working reliable car for my daughters birthday..and i made it btw..



as to what I do or do not know about you.this might be true as i do not know you personaly however as to red oil..well I think i would prefer to follow my own diagnostic's and leave it at that.otherwise i beleave you seem to have a solid foundation as far as what i have seen and are an asset to the forum..it was not a personal attack just a statement of fact that i experienced in my reagon of the country as to cost and priceing .so in my case that a new rebuilt trans would be cheaper or a used unit with a warrenty would have been cheaper was not the case. forum members should explore all options according to their skill level..the fact you are an old hand and your word carries a lot of weight could lead a member to just go your route and spend more by failure to get a warrenty with the used unit or fail to explore other options.again we don't know nor have the ablity to judge the skill set of a person posting on a fourm.however it is my belief that more options are better than less or 1..i always let people whose cars/trucks i work on know ALL the options open to them and the drawbacks of each one so the can make an informed choice.thats what i would want how bout you?

as to your priceing.well you must be some place im not.in the seattle area and northwest area on car part .com a used sl1 or sl2 auto trans starts at 650 and up all with over 120k plus miles i don't consider that a bargin personaly i would rather pack my own parachute...
...
shure you can trust the government,just ask us indians all about it...

heavy line the final protective fire line of the dealership
satlite440 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 03:53 PM   #20
Special Forces
Senior Member
Special Forces has a spectacular aura aboutSpecial Forces has a spectacular aura aboutSpecial Forces has a spectacular aura about
 
Special Forces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,223
 

2006 ION Red Line
Default Re: Slam shifting, so pulled valve body

You probably could have gotten away with opening up the top pan, the top cover of the valve body and replacing that solenoid and be back on the road slam free. But, it is an experience and adventure I suppose.

Make sure you put the 3 check balls back where they belong in the valve body. Also I'm not sure which gasket set you bought on Amazon but the ones I procure have 2 sets (4 paper gaskets for one on each side of the separator plate) so you may have wound up with 4 sets of gaskets.
...
/// Need rebuilt valve bodies? PM Me. \\\
//// Why bother with ebay when I'm right here? \\\\\
Valve bodies built to order

Please PM me about valve bodies, do not post a visitor message.
Special Forces is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Replaced Valve Body- Reverse Slam GONE ! scottybk S-Series Tech 8 04-15-2015 09:29 PM
Reverse slam w new Valve Body scottybk S-Series Tech 4 12-28-2014 11:14 AM
reverse slam, slam into 2nd, p0732, now no reverse...new valve body? nd99sl2 S-Series Tech 12 09-28-2010 10:07 PM
Reverse SLAM!! Valve body tkcsman S-Series General 9 09-07-2010 08:30 PM
Will reverse slam or new valve body fix this? chevy57 S-Series Tech 0 12-26-2007 11:18 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:46 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.