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Old 03-15-2013, 01:36 PM   #521
OldNuc
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Elusive P0172 code - diagnositic experts opinion needed

Ultra gray or the yellow box Hylomar or best choice is the Permatex The Right Stuff in the cheese whizz can, very easy to apply and works better than RTV.

The Permatex The Right Stuff is available at the parts store.

You will have to pull the pan to properly reseal the rear seal and I would clean out the pan as those chunks can end up in the oil pressure relief valve with serous consequences. The locktite anaerobic sealant is tricky to work with.

Wonder why the right guide blew up? If pinching pennies you could just replace the right guide and reset the tensioner. As long as the wear on the other 2 is acceptable.

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Old 03-15-2013, 02:34 PM   #522
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code - diagnositic experts opinion needed

The rear seal I was refering to is the one on the crankshaft (rear main seal).

I would like to not have to take the oil pan off if possible. I don't see any evidence of the plastic anywhere right now. Put a coat hanger down inside to see if I felt anything and nothhing so far.

Where would the plastic have ended up ?

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Old 03-15-2013, 03:02 PM   #523
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code - diagnositic experts opinion needed

In the oil pan is the only place it can hide. It usually gets chewed up on the way through the chain etc and the chunks are in the pan. Big chunks are going nowhere but anything that will pass through the suction screen will go through the pump and if the relief is open as it is as on a cold start that piece may get stuck in the relief. I knew which seal you were talking about. They are a real trick to get onto the crankshaft without either rolling the inside lip under or nicking it. The anaerobic sealant you used should have been OK for the seal carrier though.

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Old 03-15-2013, 03:14 PM   #524
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code - diagnositic experts opinion needed

There is little evidence of any plastic in the pan. I did notice very tiny, tiny hair like (like a curl) pieces of something in the oil. I think the engine chewed up what was in the pan.

I just now poured some Purple Cleaner (water based degreaser) into the pan (with drain bolt in) and am letting it soak for a little bit. Then will drain out. The cleaner should eat up any gunk on the bottom of the pan and I will see if any plastic is embeded in that gunk.

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Old 03-15-2013, 03:48 PM   #525
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code - diagnositic experts opinion needed

Really should not be any gunk but you never know. It all may have gone through the chain and ended up in the pan or filter. Usually when this happens there are chunks in that area to deal with.

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Old 03-15-2013, 09:32 PM   #526
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code - diagnositic experts opinion needed

I poured about a quart of purple cleaner in the oil pan and let it sit for about half hour. I drained it out and there was a lot of very fine grit in it.

I did it again to get more out. No large chunks of any kind noticed.

Had fun with the timing chain cover. Had it installed and somehow dropped a wrench or something and the little nib that sticks out where you bolt the belt pulley at the top just broke off. I had to take it all off, but fortunately I have a spare engine which I have broke down and had a spare cover, so quickly cleaned it up and installed that one.

More to do tomorrow.

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Old 03-15-2013, 09:44 PM   #527
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code - diagnositic experts opinion needed

You are lucky it broke now. The correct FSM torque for that bolt is 22ft-lb which is excessive, use 17-18ft-lb instead.

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Old 03-15-2013, 09:45 PM   #528
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code - diagnositic experts opinion needed

Try and flush all that grit out of there.

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Old 03-22-2013, 12:04 AM   #529
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Elusive P0172 code - diagnositic experts opinion needed

Got this all back together yet?

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Old 08-13-2014, 04:30 PM   #530
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1997 SW2
Default Re: Elusive P0172 code - diagnositic experts opinion needed

gonna pull a total Lazarus with this thread....Bought a 97 SW2 a few weeks ago as a commuter car....driving a 90 Firebird Formula 80 miles a day was starting to chew my wallet a bit too much.....anyhow, after replacing the bad starter (bought it knowing that), and the bad alternator (DIDN'T know that ), I drove it for a couple of days & found the same 172 code as well as the uneven idle. After reading this most epic of threads, I decided to pull the valve cover (which had been crappily re-sealed before I got it) and check the cam timing...Lo & behold, I had the SAME ISSUE as cboss, except it was my intake cam that was off a tooth. As he did, I CAREFULLY removed the offending sprocket, and re-positioned the cam correctly. Reassembled it about an hour ago & WOW what a difference!!! Smooth idle, more power & no code (yet ). I saw a TON of sealer on the front cover, so I can only assume that someone did a half a--ed job on the chain. SO glad I read this thread & glad to be a new member here on the forum!!

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Old 08-13-2014, 06:03 PM   #531
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code - diagnositic experts opinion needed

You may have just lucked out. Some of the El-Cheapo timing sets have the crank keyway incorrectly positioned and this throws the entire system out of time. If you got it all back into time then you can proceed with repairing and/or replacing all of the rest of the poorly executed repairs.

Welcome to the forum.

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Old 08-14-2014, 12:40 PM   #532
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code - diagnositic experts opinion needed

thanks.....if it was luck, I'll take it!!!

...
Remember: No matter where you go, there you are....

97 SW2 5-speed..227k & counting...
90 Firebird Formula 5.0tpi
08 Santa Fe 2.7 5-speed
83 AMC Spirit GT 360

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Old 07-29-2016, 11:14 PM   #533
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code - diagnositic experts opinion needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by cboss View Post
I see the problem !

Take a look at the photo. The right side chain guide, the plastic part is totally gone ! It must have broke and tore up into pieces and be in the bottom of the oil pan.

That changed how much tension was on the chain and allowed it to bounce around.
...

Do I have to take the oil pan off now and clean it all out ?
cboss.... This is the most amazing post I have ever read on this forum in 13+? years.... I truely take my hat off in amazement at the thoroughness of your work and never-give-up attitude. Wow!

Special mention to the illusive rough idle at startup resulting in the infamous SES light due to issues with the Purge Canister Solenoid.

Timing Chain Tensioner: *I believe* when the car is driven normally and oil levels are maintained and 4K oil changes it will never wear out. My Timing Chain Tensioner measured: 0.375" Wear limit is 0.86xx" at 160K miles. It is original and I have owned the car since it was new.

Also, the compression was 205 psi in all four cylinders - original pistions & rings and did not have a valve job - Had the head pressure tested for leaks and the machine shop said a valve job was not needed.

Is your Saturn still running?

Btw, I like ultra grey RTV sealant but .... it is sooooo strong that if you have to dissemble it is like the parts are welded together but with all sealent it is critical to put it on so the bead is a consistent thickness and always lean towards too much rather then too thin. If some squeezes into the motor it will dry in place and not circulate in the oil.

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