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Old 12-23-2007, 08:09 PM   #21
millss12
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

Thanks for the advice. The dealer has been great! They seem as frustrated as me. The same technician has done all of the work during previous visits. They claim that this is the first leaky Outlook they have seen at their dealership.
I did get a look at the headliner when it was out of the vehicle. A small wet area was drying. But, I didn't look inside the car. I don't know why...just didn't. The only leak that I seem to have now is coming in the driver side door seal. Only a drip now and then.
Other than the water leaks, I love the Outlook. Best vehicle that I have owned.

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Old 12-23-2007, 08:12 PM   #22
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by djhhjd View Post
Thats a total drag, there must be somthing else that they are missing and atleast its sounds like your being civil and it sounds like maybe they are not. I wonder just how much time they are actually spending on it each time to resolve the issue and/or if it is the same person working on it. Is your headliner trashed or anything else? You might want to take a look in there Wednesday if they take the headliner out and see what you can see, atleast you'll know what it looks like under the headliner and you may see something they dont. Just a thought.
I think the retailer is being civil about it - rather very genuine about their disappointment that it's still leaking. I've been bringing my Saturns to them since 1995 for service, and it's been consistent all this time.

The first time I brought it in they thought they nailed it when they found the lines clogged with pine needles. The second time they mentioned they re-routed the lines (and removed some t-pieces?) to optimize the flow.

I was supposed to bring it in Monday, but they asked me to move the appointment until Wednesday because the technician that worked on it the last time would be in then. I think they're taking the extra time to find a solution, too. I told them that I've been looking online and that the Acadia has had problems with the sunroof as well, and the woman I spoke to seemed surprised to hear it.

The headliner is trashed - it was after the last time I was in, and the retailer had one on order for me. I mentioned that the sun visors are stained, too, and they said they would replace those under warranty, too.

I've always taken a realistic view of issues on my cars. I'm a Reliability Engineer by trade, so I'm used to dealing with customer issues, and dealing with complex equipment gives me a different view of things. If it's a design issue, they should have a fix for it. If not, and I can't get it resolved, they should replace my car.

I might ask to see it with the headliner down... let's see if they let me in to the garage.

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Old 12-23-2007, 10:02 PM   #23
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

Awsome attitude about the issues with your Outlook.

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Old 12-24-2007, 04:03 PM   #24
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

Well, I just dropped my Outlook off at the dealership this morning (yes Christmas Eve). Round Three with the roof leak. We got some rain in MD yesterday and the lights and back sensor LED are all leaking water again. I'm driving to the ATL after Christmas and can't take the chance of having this leaking on the kids. I'm also worried about mold as well. I have gone on record again regarding the headliner. Saturn refused to replace it under warranty. As others have mentioned, if they can't fix this problem, I do believe I need to start exploring my options. I wonder if the problem has to do with the thin roof sheet metal? Maybe its flexing so much that the rear wihndow can't keep a seal.

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Old 12-24-2007, 04:20 PM   #25
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

I must say that my jaw dropped a little reading all these posts, you guys seem pretty calm about these leaks, kudos for you. For me they would probably need to call the police on me if I had to bring my brand new car in 3 times or more for the same problem!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 12-25-2007, 01:01 AM   #26
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

I trying to stay calm now. I'm saving my energy for if or when they tell me the leak can't be fixed and I will have to live with it .

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Old 12-25-2007, 01:15 PM   #27
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

We had previously owned a 04 Vue Redline with a moon roof. I had never had any problems with that roof leaking. We just purchased a 08 Outlook and although we were not seeking a moon roof, we got one. I have to say some of the scenarios above are disheartening. As I have always had reasonable service from Saturn. It hasn't rained on here yet but I did run the Outlook through a touch less and did not notice any downpours inside. I will be keeping a close eye however.

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Old 12-27-2007, 05:09 PM   #28
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

After 3 times wouldn't it qualify under Maryland's Lemon Law?

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Old 12-28-2007, 01:10 AM   #29
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

I got word late today that the retailer was done working on fixing the leak (they had my Outlook for 2 full days). They gave me an Aura XE for a loaner, so it wasn't so bad. Although I did miss all my creature comforts!

They said they replaced the headliner, I didn't hear if they replaced the stained sun visors, though. I asked if they tested the fix, and they said they turned a hose on it for a while. It was raining all day today and tonight here in MA, so I asked them to leave it outside tonight and check it in the morning. They said they sealed the "four holes" - so I expect to smell sealant like Morpheus reported.

This is fix #3, and under Mass law I can use the Lemon Law if the leak happens again. Although, I don't know if I will run into trouble since I bought my Outlook at a retailer 50 miles away near where I work but service it at one near my home.

Morpheus - I'd press the issue with the headliner with your retailer. If the leak caused the staining, it should be covered. And it should be pretty obvious that the damage was caused by water. My retailer didn't even blink when I asked to have mine replaced. You could mention to them that maybe SCS would have a different opinion about it.

Kaviation - don't get me wrong - I am upset, and at the same time I'm just being realistic. I know wasting energy isn't going to get it fixed faster, or fixed at all. It's really all on Saturn right now - they know they need to nail this or I could be handing them a used Outlook with a liability.

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Old 12-28-2007, 09:46 AM   #30
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

I hope #3 did the trick.

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Old 12-29-2007, 07:25 AM   #31
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

Well, I spoke with the dealership yesterday and apparently the roofing specialist and the water leak specialist can't agree on what the problem is. They are expecting to get together on Monday to review the vehicle to determine the best course of action. In the meantime, Enterprise (after much complaining) gave me an almost, somewhat clean 2008 Enclave (sans sunroof) as a loaner car. Its much quieter and smoother than the Outlook but I don't like the exterior nor do I think the interior trim warrants a higher price tag.

Regarding the MD lemon law - I believe that if the third fix does not work I will qualify for a buy back. The only challenge there is that you receive the full purchase price of the vehicle minus usage which in my case is about 15K miles. My other issue will be the extras I have add to the vehicle - OEM in-dash navigation, DVD headrest monitors, running boards - none of these were factory installed.

Regarding the headliner - I have been told that it will be replaced. The stains were from the mechanic's greasy fingers.

Stay tuned...

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Old 12-29-2007, 10:04 AM   #32
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by morpheus2969 View Post
Well, I spoke with the dealership yesterday and apparently the roofing specialist and the water leak specialist can't agree on what the problem is. They are expecting to get together on Monday to review the vehicle to determine the best course of action. In the meantime, Enterprise (after much complaining) gave me an almost, somewhat clean 2008 Enclave (sans sunroof) as a loaner car. Its much quieter and smoother than the Outlook but I don't like the exterior nor do I think the interior trim warrants a higher price tag.

Regarding the MD lemon law - I believe that if the third fix does not work I will qualify for a buy back. The only challenge there is that you receive the full purchase price of the vehicle minus usage which in my case is about 15K miles. My other issue will be the extras I have add to the vehicle - OEM in-dash navigation, DVD headrest monitors, running boards - none of these were factory installed.

Regarding the headliner - I have been told that it will be replaced. The stains were from the mechanic's greasy fingers.

Stay tuned...
I would say if there was a buy back take all of your stuff off and just go back to the way it was from the factory and then if you get another Outlook put all of it back on, on the other hand if you decide not to get another Outlook then perhaps your stuck holding the bag.

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Old 12-30-2007, 01:40 PM   #33
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

It looks as though trip #3 did do the trick <crosses fingers>. The retailer said that they patched the four holes on the moon roof, I presume they're at the corners, per a GM/Saturn TSB which I didn't get a good look at. Just for good measure, I ran my Outlook through a car wash a few hours after I picked it up, and no signs of leaks. The sealant smell has mostly gone away, too.

They also replaced the roof liner on this trip. It'll make it easier to detect another leak now .

The next big test will be tonight/tomorrow here in MA - we're getting a decent snow storm and we'll see if snow slowly melting on the roof does anything.

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Old 12-30-2007, 01:44 PM   #34
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

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It looks as though trip #3 did do the trick <crosses fingers>. The retailer said that they patched the four holes on the moon roof, I presume they're at the corners, per a GM/Saturn TSB which I didn't get a good look at. Just for good measure, I ran my Outlook through a car wash a few hours after I picked it up, and no signs of leaks. The sealant smell has mostly gone away, too.

They also replaced the roof liner on this trip. It'll make it easier to detect another leak now .

The next big test will be tonight/tomorrow here in MA - we're getting a decent snow storm and we'll see if snow slowly melting on the roof does anything.
Hope it works out for you this time, just make sure it doesn't start leaking somewhere else now.

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Old 12-31-2007, 03:37 PM   #35
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

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It looks as though trip #3 did do the trick <crosses fingers>. The retailer said that they patched the four holes on the moon roof, I presume they're at the corners, per a GM/Saturn TSB which I didn't get a good look at. Just for good measure, I ran my Outlook through a car wash a few hours after I picked it up, and no signs of leaks. The sealant smell has mostly gone away, too.

They also replaced the roof liner on this trip. It'll make it easier to detect another leak now .

The next big test will be tonight/tomorrow here in MA - we're getting a decent snow storm and we'll see if snow slowly melting on the roof does anything.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. Sealing the holes and reconnecting the drain lines didn't help mine. I sure hope you have better luck than I.

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Old 12-31-2007, 05:10 PM   #36
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

My big concern is some GM engineer thought it was necessary to design in these holes and drain lines - what other problems am I going to have if they've blocked them up?

No leaks overnight... we had snow then sleet than rain, so there was wet, heavy snow on the roof all night, and not a drop detected.

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Old 12-31-2007, 09:29 PM   #37
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

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My big concern is some GM engineer thought it was necessary to design in these holes and drain lines - what other problems am I going to have if they've blocked them up?

No leaks overnight... we had snow then sleet than rain, so there was wet, heavy snow on the roof all night, and not a drop detected.
If they blocked the drain holes where will the water go? Did they run new hoses a different routing with new holes? Anyhow nice to hear that it is not leaking for you.

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Old 01-02-2008, 01:27 PM   #38
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

Well, its a good thing I didn't have my Outlook this weekend. The drive from SC to GA was a constant down pour. Kids would have bee swimming the entire trip.

My service advisor tells me that the entire sunroof assembly has to be taken apart and that this will be done on Thursday. I guess I will know soon whether this solves the problem.

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Old 01-02-2008, 01:47 PM   #39
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

Just curious, which Saturn do you use in Maryland? Good luck ont he fix!

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Old 01-02-2008, 04:01 PM   #40
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Default Re: Roof Leak!! Roof Rack the culprit?

Just a follow-up to my original post. Whoa! I'm amazed at how many times this has come up as a problem.

We FOUND the source of the leak. 2nd time at the dealership is a charm! I told the dealer I wasn't going to pick up the car until they found it. I suggested to them to drop the headliner. They said they had to call Saturn first to get the approval - kind of sounds like an HMO - ha. Two days later, they got the approval. They found the leak 30 seconds after dropping the headliner. A steady drip, drip, drip was coming from between two roof panels.

A WELDING SEAM WAS NOT SEALED CORRECTLY AT THE FACTORY. The mechanic squirted 4 cents worth of caulking in the gap - and it appears to have been fixed (2 weeks of rainy Seattle weather so far). I was happy we found the "smoking gun". According to the dealer, my headliner isn't damaged and it will never ever ever get mold (I'm sure it will start stinking the day after the warranty expires).

Now, we're waiting for the dealer to replace some of the SRS plastic buttons and the A-pillar trim that had pry marks from the mechanic. I really don't blame the mechanic, I mean, he's an engine guy and he just spent a ton of time doing trim work. I wonder if a body shop could have found the problem quicker.

I was kind of miffed at how the dealer handled the situation. I had to be very firm and persistant. Now, after reading other people's ordeals, I'm downright giddy at how easily it was to fix the leak!

tmckinn

Love our Outlook - the kids are always disappointed when they have to ride in daddy's Audi instead of mommy's "Outtie" (Outlook).

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