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Old 12-01-2002, 02:16 AM   #1
johnsocal
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Default Will the Quad-coupe be faster then the Ion sedan?

Except for the super-charged QC that comes out next year, how will the normal Quad-coupe be faster then the sedan if the both have the same chassis, tranny, and engine.

A coupe that goes 0-60 over 10 seconds is really sad.

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Old 12-01-2002, 04:11 AM   #2
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Yes, it will be. By how much? Not sure.

The coupe will not feature the 5 speed auto, but only CVT and 5 speed manual. The last two are almost identical in acceleration performance...but GM's implementation in the VUE has shown that the CVT is about a second faster.

... and lets hope that they "gear" for performance with the CVT.

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Old 12-01-2002, 05:23 PM   #3
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Yes, it will be, but how much more so remains to be seen. The stick should do 0-60 in 9.2-9.5, even with a weight and length disadvantage. The tuner should match the first-gen SC's levels of power.

Not only is a coupe doing 0-60 in ten seconds sad, chances are good it won't sell.

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Old 12-01-2002, 08:19 PM   #4
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Hrm, I drove about 20 ION sedans today, with both manual and auto transmissions, and the 5 speed auto felt faster (if placed in I instead of D). Neaither of them felt as quick as an L series with the 2.2 and auto, and actually in an informal stoplight drag, an L200 with about 1800 miles on it (customer return) whooped me big, and I was in an ION-1, with small wheels which *should* have helped acceleration some.
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Old 12-02-2002, 12:44 AM   #5
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Ok, I keep looking at the ION engine and getting confused.

Some places say it has a 137hp/142ft-lb, other places have 140hp/145ft-lb, the second rated at 5800rpm/4400rpm respectively.

So was there something that changed or was it originally 137hp?

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Old 12-02-2002, 10:14 AM   #6
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Default Re: Will the Quad-coupe be faster then the Ion sedan?

Quote:
Originally posted by johnsocal
Except for the super-charged QC that comes out next year, how will the normal Quad-coupe be faster then the sedan if the both have the same chassis, tranny, and engine.

A coupe that goes 0-60 over 10 seconds is really sad.
depending on curb weight differences between the sedan and quad coupe they should be about the same with the 5-speed manual and same tires and wheels.
saturn's specs for the 2.2L ecotec in the ion are 140hp@5800rpm and 145ft-lbs@4400rpm. other sources may have incorrect info and/or confuse it with the numbers for the 2.2L ecotec in the l-series that are 135hp@5200rpm and 142ft-lbs@4400 rpm. sure it's the same engine but with different tuning. then there's the vue 2.2L ecotec with 143hp@5400rpm and 152ft-lbs@4000rpm. confused yet?

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Old 12-02-2002, 02:10 PM   #7
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Saturn originally stated 137hp/142ft-lb .....

then there was a lot of outrage in the community since the numbers were under even what the 2.2L cavy was rated at...

The numbers were "bumped" to 140hp/145ft-lbs.

Whether or not the "community" had anything to do with that is up in the air. But it wouldnt be the first time that happened....

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Old 12-02-2002, 03:18 PM   #8
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This makes me wonder if the real HP and TQ ratings are still 137/142, but Saturn hasn't been installing the correct PCM load.

This would also help to explain why the Twistec coupe showed such crappy stock dyno numbers.

Maybe Saturn Motorsports needs to put a few IONS on the dyon and make sure Saturn isn't screwing some people out of an advertised 3 HP and 3 TQ...

Oh wait even if it was it wouldn't matter, 3 is about the difference of another passanger..
Forget it all the ION has terrable power.

IT NEEDS BOOST!

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Old 12-02-2002, 04:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by SCDYNE

Forget it all the ION has terrable power.
nah I think 137/140/145 hp or whatever it is is perfectly adequate for an economy car. Maybe not THIS economy car, but it'd be plenty for most others.

Quote:
Originally posted by SCDYNE

IT NEEDS BOOST!
For the sport model, absolutely. For the regular model, what this sucker needs is a diet! Sadly, there's simply no way this car can lose the 200-300 pounds it so desperately needs to. I'm afraid the ball has been dropped, and there won't be another chance to pick it up until the Ion replacement shows up in 5 or 10 years.

jeff

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Old 12-02-2002, 05:40 PM   #10
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Well, maybe it's not too late... I mean, Saturn could start installing carbon fibre hoods, remove the battery altogether (we'll turn the sunroof into a solar panel for storing power), remove the trunk lid altogether (hmmm... may look weird, but since we're saving weight...)....

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Old 12-02-2002, 06:56 PM   #11
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damn, no quad coupes for us in rainy washington state...

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Old 12-02-2002, 07:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by L300Boy
damn, no quad coupes for us in rainy washington state...
Interesting, why not? I live in WA and was thinking of an ION QC when I graduate College in about 3-5 years.

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Old 12-02-2002, 08:02 PM   #13
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That was a joke! Of course the QC will be great for washington state.

Quote:
remove the battery altogether (we'll turn the sunroof into a solar panel for storing power
We dont get any sun here, so obviously Firemate's QC concept wouldnt function very well here ... ha ha

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Old 12-02-2002, 08:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ecator
Ok, I keep looking at the ION engine and getting confused.

Some places say it has a 137hp/142ft-lb, other places have 140hp/145ft-lb, the second rated at 5800rpm/4400rpm respectively.

So was there something that changed or was it originally 137hp?
The ION's Ecotec engine was rated at 137-hp/142 ft-lbs when first previewed in NYC, and GM included those figures in March 27th press releases.

Four days later, the Ecotec hp/tq ratings were upgraded, but by then, the automotive press took the first set of figures and basically ran with them, so nobody is really right or wrong when it comes to an additional 3-hp/3ft-lbs.

Rather than GM/Saturn go through an expensive and time-consuming overhall of their press kits, those who wanted to find out more were instead guided to Saturn's ION website for the most up-to-date information.

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Old 12-02-2002, 11:06 PM   #15
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Freaky, its like that previous company that actually overstated numbers...eh...heh...

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Old 12-03-2002, 01:17 PM   #16
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the simple answer to the original question is probably "no"

this is because the Coupe weighs more than the sedan, thanks to the quad door thing needing extra metal and parts and such.

so if two cars with the same manual 5 spd tranny and the same engine tuned to the same power level built on the same platform with essentially the same body were to race, and one weighed more than the other, which would win, provided the drivers were both capable? the lighter one. in this case, the ION sedan.

unless they are re-tuning the coupe, it will have to be slower, technically speaking.

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