95 Saturn SC2 5sp 144k with a high idle?

[fritcr]

Some of you have read my tale of my first engine swap. It is all done and in. It now runs smooth and has plenty of power. I have a few small problems...
It "seems" to idle a little high. It it usually just under or right at 1000 rpm on the tach. Sometimes seems to take bit to come down to idle when pushing the clutch also. Just a reminder...the donar engine came out of an automatic car. I was told by a someone that the only difference was the flywheel and that all of the sensors, computer etc were the same. I cleaned the TB good before I put the engine in. I didn't take the IAC off..in fact..I'm not sure where it is. I really have not looked for it. I might try to clean that tomorrow.
Second problem is, and probably related, the service engine soon light comes on sometimes but usually not. I drove it for 1/2 hour and came to a stop light and pushed the clutch in and it idled fine for about 1 min I guess then it idled up to about 1600 rpms for a few seconds then back down and the light came on. It stayed on until I restarted the car later but never came back on that day. It has came on once before when sitting and idling in the driveway early on when I was filling antifreeze etc. I do have the old engine and all sensors etc in the shed. BTW...the ETCS on this engine was brass and looked good but I can buy a new one if you all think it could still be that. I put a new thermostate in it before putting the engine back in. Any ideas for me to try. My dad has a scan tool but only for the newer cars and it won't read this one so I can't get the code.

[OldNuc]

Temperature gauge should be reading just below 1/2 if you have normal temperature. Next time you get a steady high idle event switch the car off and back on without touching the throttle. If it comes back to its normal idle then its a defective TPS sensor.

Go to the How-To Library and use the advances search for "paper clip code". You can extract all of the codes with a paperclip.

[fritcr]

I just did the paperclip code thing and I get the following:
35 IAC Valve, RPM out of range
49 Idle RPM out of limit high

I'll see if I can find the IAC and make sure it look ok and clean it. I could get the one off the orginial engine too if need be. Think that might be what's wrong?
My car also seems to vibrate alot when idling but I did some research and looked at Richpin's vids on youtube to check the top mount with a pen and I can't put the pen in the spot indicated.
Thanks for everyones help!
Rob

[fritcr]

Oh forgot to mention that the temp is fine. Just a tick below 1/2 way. Seems fine and never gets hot or anything.

[Cheyne]

Here are richpin's videos (3 parts) on cleaning the throttle body. I think the IAC cleaning is in the second one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApNTQs6GzcY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT7yA2TL4lk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3dC0ZLvpt8

[OldNuc]

Originally Posted by fritcr

I just did the paperclip code thing and I get the following:
35 IAC Valve, RPM out of range
49 Idle RPM out of limit high

I'll see if I can find the IAC and make sure it look ok and clean it. I could get the one off the orginial engine too if need be. Think that might be what's wrong?
My car also seems to vibrate alot when idling but I did some research and looked at Richpin's vids on youtube to check the top mount with a pen and I can't put the pen in the spot indicated.
Thanks for everyones help!
Rob

If your engine idles rough it can be a bad plug wire or worn out dogbone mounts. Or even maladjusted lower engine dogbone mount. there is a richpin video on replacing the upper motor mount and the dogbone adjustment is in that video.

Clean the entire throttle body as suggested. then pull the PCM-B fuse for 3 or 4 minutes to clear all of the codes and see what comes back.

[fritcr]

I didn't see you post until I had already cleaned the iac the best I could. I didn't remove the TB but did take the iac off and cleaned it all out in there. I hope that will do it. If not I will take it apart like the video said.
I put the iac off the orginial engine back on after cleaning it up. I have not had a chance to try the car out though because I took my front rotors off today too. I need to have them turned tomorrow.
I have new plugs and 2 sets of wires and used the best (newest looking ones) the car does not miss at all.
I also saw the video about the dog bone adjustment or whatever which I DID NOT do after putting this engine in the car. I will release those nuts tomorrow when I put the rotors back on and see if that helps the vibrations.
As always..thanks much for the all of the help!
Rob

[Canyon]

Originally Posted by fritcr

I put the iac off the orginial engine back on after cleaning it up. I have not had a chance to try the car out though because I took my front rotors off today too. I need to have them turned tomorrow.

You are best to just get new rotors. They are fairly inexpensive and not worth turning.

NGK plugs are recommended. DOHC uses NGK BKR5ESA-11

[fritcr]

Sorry for the long times between posts but I have to travel some for my job. Anyway, back at working on the Saturn. I put the upper Motor Mount from the other engine on it and then adjusted the dogbone. That seems to have fixed the unusual vibrations. I took the throttleplate off the intake and took all of the sensors off. Cleaned it all really good and put it all back together with the IAC and TPS from the old engine.
I still have a high idle. At least I think so. It usually idles at about 1000 or 1100rpms. It does idle smooth and runs great. If I let it sit for a minute or so at idle then it will idle itself up to about 1500rpms for a few seconds then it falls back to 1100 and the service engine light comes on. It did this before and the code was TPS but this is a different TPS that seemed fine on the other engine. Any other ideas for me to look at?
I think most everything else is good now.
Rob

[1995sl1sohc]

Originally Posted by OldNuc

Temperature gauge should be reading just below 1/2 if you have normal temperature. Next time you get a steady high idle event switch the car off and back on without touching the throttle. If it comes back to its normal idle then its a defective TPS sensor.

Go to the How-To Library and use the advances search for "paper clip code". You can extract all of the codes with a paperclip.

This will tell you if it's the TPS,
What year is the engine?

[OldNuc]

What code did you get? Is your temperature gauge sitting at 1/2 or just a needle below while the idle is jumping around? Do you have a DVM by any chance? If so the TPS can be tested.

[fritcr]

I get a code 49. If I turn the car off when the idle goes up it starts back up high like usual then idles down but will do the whole idle up and down then check light if I wait long enough.
Just to recap...new thermostate and my gage stays at just a tick below 1/2. My donar engine was also a 95. Put a new water pump on yesterday and all looks good. They did not have the NGK for the car so I got the A/C plugs that showed for the car. (I asked for NGK's)
Now, new news! I thought for sure this engine had the brass ETCS BUT..I just double checked and it DOES NOT! I can't belive I missed that after all of the talk about it. I looked at it and it looked brass so I figured it was brass. After looking over old posts and stuff last night I realized that you have to look for the hump in front of the nut and it does not have that. I will stop and saturn today and get one for it. I can't remember what the code 49 is but will do a search when I'm done with this post.
Rob

[fritcr]

Oh yeah...forgot...i don't know what a DVM is??
Rob

[dorisSL]

Originally Posted by fritcr

Oh yeah...forgot...i don't know what a DVM is??
Rob

Digital Volt Meter
Tps can be tested that way. I wouldn't be able to explain exactly how, but I know its easy.

[fritcr]

Oh ok...dvm...I do have one and I think I can figure out how to test it. I didn't think about that.

[1995sl1sohc]

To test the TPS with a volt meter, probe the dark blue wire and ground the other probe on the black wire. With the ignition in the on position but the engine OFF with the throttle closed it should read under 1.25 volts and with the throttle wide open it should read around 5 volts. If you read over 1.25 volts with the throttle closed the TPS is more then likely junk.

[OldNuc]

Key on, engine off. Throttle closed is 0.4v and throttle wide open 4.7v. The tolerance is +/- 0.2v.

You stick a straight pin in the black and dark blue wire. Be careful so as to not stick a pin in your finger. You do not have to tape up the hole the pin leaves. The insulation will seal its self.

[fritcr]

I didn't have time to check the TPS but I did put the new ETCS on and it did not make a difference. I cleared the codes and now it does the same thing when warm...it sits at a light or whatever and then suddenly it will idle up to about 1500 rpms the right back down...like 5 seconds or something. Then the ses came back on. Now it has a code 35 on it and it reads as follows:
Idle Air Control (IAC) - RPM Out Of Range
The idle air control (IAC) consists of a two coil stepper motor controlling a valve. The motor is
used to move the IAC valve pintle in and out of a seat to control the amount of air that enters
the intake manifold at idle.


Diagnostic Trouble Code parameters:
DTC 35 will set if:

Idle speed is greater than desired after PCM commanding the IAC motor closed.
Idle speed is greater than desired after PCM commanding the IAC motor wide
opened.

This is the iac from the originial engine that did not have this problem or ses light on it.
I don't know when i will be able to check the tps but will as soon as i can.
Rob

[OldNuc]

If the dominant parameter overrides the IAC control signal and the PCM sees the RPM out of limits it sets that code. Does not mean there is anything wrong with the IAC. I think its a TPS problem and probably either an intermittent wiper contact or a bad connection in the plug. I would try the backup TPS. They are not all the same either. Get one for the right year PCM.

[fritcr]

Everything I have is from 95 year cars. I have pretty much 2 of everything. I changed the TPS with the spare already the otherday at the same time I took the throttle body off and cleaned everything. But I could take it back on and change it back now that everything is clean. Also could put a gasket on the TB even though it shows no signs of leaking air.
Rob