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Old 08-03-2019, 09:44 PM   #1
Melissa_M
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1999 SL2
Default loose motor mount

I noticed one of my TAM studs was finger loose, just needed a few turns so it wasnít terribly far out. Tightened it with a small wrench, to snug level. However, putting a torque wrench on all of those studs, I had to turn them all several times to get to 9ft LB. This made me real nervous because hand tight is supposed to be enough and of course I donít want to crack the timing cover. But I went ahead and trusted the torque wrench, too bad that doesnít make me feel any better. And since Iíve driven it for a bit with a loose mount, now Iím stressing about the studs breaking - I guess if I made it til now theyíre OK? Also, if in fact I over torqued the studs, could the timing cover crack later on?

The nuts on the rear 2 studs seemed loose (not finger loose, tho), but again, putting a torque wrench on them, they were all well below 35 ft lbs. I tightened them all up, however I assume that I really need to do that with the engine weight off the mount? Plus I would need to loosen/retighten the lower dogbone nuts.

The fact that the studs and nuts were seemingly so significantly loose surprises me - I watch the engine at idle and it seems pretty solid. But of course I donít see it when it turns over. And I have recently had a slight clunk (only at throttle up/down), so perhaps this is the culprit.

Unfortunately, the kicker is that I suppose my top mount is actually collapsed enough that I should probably replace it, but what are the current options? Whatever non-frownie I can find?

...
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Old 08-03-2019, 10:24 PM   #2
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2001 SL1
Default Re: loose motor mount

Melissa, there may only be 2 original TAM's left.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/92-02-Satur...8AAOSwPAxaND7m

Pricey ? Yes, however, that ebay seller sold alot of them for $20 more and now they have reduced their price down and have only 2 left.

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Old 08-03-2019, 11:26 PM   #3
focusofheart
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1998 SL2
Default Re: loose motor mount

There is a DEA/MARMON RIDE CONTROL MK5003 package that looks as though it might work out well. It certainly won't hurt to look as it appears to be a non-frownie one (I remember a few members mentioning this mount from Rock Auto).


link to kit - under $40.00 without shipping
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...357264&jsn=876

link showing the top motor mount - under $22.00 without shipping
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...jsn=__GIP__3__

I have 2 of the motor mounts left that I purchased (129.99 each) from ebay seller saturnsseriespartsandmore and the DEA top mount looks very similar to what I received.

...
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Singer 1952 - 301A

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Old 08-27-2019, 12:40 PM   #4
Melissa_M
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Default Re: loose motor mount

Got the mount tightened up evenly, reset the lower dogbone, and now my clunk (only at throttle up/down) appears to be resolved. That is encouraging.

As soon as I got that done, of course, I started to think about it a bit more. I may be overthinking all this, but my goal is to fix a potential issue before things break. Cuz I have serious reservations about removing a broken stud, cutting new threads, or replacing a timing cover.

I am wondering about the stress on the studs from running with a loose mount.

Am I at risk, going forward, of the studs breaking?

I also did not apply threadlock to the studs, kind of regretting it now.

I am also still on the fence about replacing this mount. More deep pondering has left me contemplating the tradeoff between my current 'collapsed' mount (it has a gap but the car really does not vibrate) or a new mount with rubber that is likely to actually cause more vibration. I even still have my previous solid mount in the garage (the replacement for the frownie mount that collapsed shortly after i bought the car!), and it's actually a little less collapsed than my current mount. But presumably the rubber is older. It also has the shorter studs. If I swapped that back on, I'd worry less about the studs (breaking), but the older rubber seems like an issue.



Another question - I installed the studs, but when you put the nuts on, they don't spin freely all the way down to the mount. So I ended up holding the stud while tightening the nuts down (to prevent the studs from getting turned with the nut). Is this because the studs were not clean, or is that the design? I don't recall having this issue the first time I did the mount, but it was many years ago. I really don't know how to properly clean a fastener, lame, huh?

...
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Old 08-27-2019, 12:54 PM   #5
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Default Re: loose motor mount

Yeah, I think you are over-thinking it. Are the nuts on top tight (~35)? Then the studs into the cover are tight too. Threads at both ends of a stud will be just as "tight" as each other. You put the first end in lightly (hand, 9, whatever) to be sure you have full thread engagement in that tender cover, but when the nut is tightened the load in the stud is the same at both the cover end and nut end. Yes, thread length and pitch comes in to figuring out stress on the thread material, but that is already "built in" to the design.

Just ensure the studs are in as far as they will easily go, then torque the nuts.

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Old 08-27-2019, 01:17 PM   #6
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2001 SC2
Default Re: loose motor mount

I've cracked a few stupid things on the S-Series (worst I was blamed for was an AC compressor mount boss on the oil gallery line, don't believe I actually did it...), but never a timing cover. Generally the nuts came out with the studs so they'd get reinstalled that way, no messing around with undersized torque wrench's or separating the stud & nut.

I'd have to guess that the cracked timing covers are either from people going insane on the torque or using the wrong studs with the wrong mounts...there's 2 different thickness's to the mounts and 2 different lengths of studs. Along with the 2 lengths there's also 2 styles of tips on the studs, some are 7mm(ish) while others are E4(ish). "ish" because I don't remember the exact size but those are close.

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Old 08-27-2019, 03:01 PM   #7
TwoFistedJustic
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2001 SC2
Default Re: loose motor mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by focusofheart View Post
There is a DEA/MARMON RIDE CONTROL MK5003 package that looks as though it might work out well. It certainly won't hurt to look as it appears to be a non-frownie one (I remember a few members mentioning this mount from Rock Auto).


link to kit - under $40.00 without shipping
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...357264&jsn=876

link showing the top motor mount - under $22.00 without shipping
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...jsn=__GIP__3__

I have 2 of the motor mounts left that I purchased (129.99 each) from ebay seller saturnsseriespartsandmore and the DEA top mount looks very similar to what I received.
I can confirm that the Marmon Ride Control mounts are non-frownie.

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Old 08-27-2019, 08:53 PM   #8
Melissa_M
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1999 SL2
Default Re: loose motor mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoFistedJustic View Post
I can confirm that the Marmon Ride Control mounts are non-frownie.
Thanks. I am seeing reports that suppliers may stick a frownie or a solid in the box of the same part#. As long as I can return the part I don't mind, but seems like RockAuto or amazon 3rd party is gonna ding you on shipping.

Took a few test drives and it was fine at first, but now I've got a new noise to track down. I'm guessing it's a pulley but I really don't know what a bad pulley sounds like. Or the tensioner. Poked around a bit under the hood , then pulled it back into garage and now it seems quiet again.

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Old 08-27-2019, 09:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: loose motor mount

If the nuts will not turn freely on a stud, fix that before continuing. May of the benefits of using a stud are lost if the nut is froze to it and it is just installed as a cap-screw with funny-looking head. Benefits like resistance to stripping/galling/cracking of the female threads...

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Old 08-27-2019, 10:42 PM   #10
focusofheart
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1998 SL2
Default Re: loose motor mount

I was unaware I had just 2 of the 3 motor mounts bolts holding on the top mount for several years, I am guessing, until recently. The bolt was not missing just stripped.

The mechanic I have now repaired the 3rd bolt by doing a "Tap and Die."

I was replacing the top motor mount (was the frownie version) more frequently than I thought was necessary so he pointed out my problem and repaired it the next day.

Thankfully, I came across this forum recently and learned it is best to use the OEM top mounts, or at least, not the frownie ones.

...
Saturn 1998 - SL2
Singer 1952 - 301A

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