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Old 08-08-2020, 04:32 AM   #1
GL4202
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Default Cooling fan delete, electronics?

2002 SL sohc stick ... My cooling fan doesnt turn on anymore and I dont have money to fix it, and as long as I keep her moving she doesnt overheat, so id rather delete it. I would imagine thatd be easy to detach, but is there any electronics that could get messed up or affect other parts of the car? How would I do that safely? Would i be able to take off a related pump or minimize the parasitic loss?. I know basic car mechanics but nothing about electronics. Any help is appreciated, thank you
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Old 08-08-2020, 09:00 AM   #2
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

If it doesn't work, why remove it?
Secondly, (you know what's coming next), fix the underlying problem.
You state you "don't have the money to fix it", but do you have enough money to buy another car? That's what will happen. Overheat> crack the head> dead car.
If the car is overheating in traffic (sitting still / stop light), start with replacing the thermostat, that's only $15 - less than a tank of gas.

Just for reference, in the 10 years (100,000 miles?) I've driven my 2000 SOHC, the number of times the fan has come on is less than 20. So if yours is coming on at all, shows there is a problem.
good luck, keep us posted
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Old 08-08-2020, 09:02 AM   #3
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GL4202 View Post
2002 SL sohc stick ... My cooling fan doesnt turn on anymore and I dont have money to fix it, and as long as I keep her moving she doesnt overheat, so id rather delete it. I would imagine thatd be easy to detach, but is there any electronics that could get messed up or affect other parts of the car? How would I do that safely? Would i be able to take off a related pump or minimize the parasitic loss?. I know basic car mechanics but nothing about electronics. Any help is appreciated, thank you
Do you know why it's not working? Just because it's not working doesn't mean it's the fans fault.... could be wiring.

You're not going to gain anything by removing it. There is no pump to run an electric fan.

Also, I'm not sure what kind of budget you have but the motor and even the whole assembly is not very expensive through Rockauto.
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Old 08-08-2020, 09:13 AM   #4
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

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Originally Posted by 454cid View Post
Do you know why it's not working? Just because it's not working doesn't mean it's the fans fault.... could be wiring.

You're not going to gain anything by removing it. There is no pump to run an electric fan.

Also, I'm not sure what kind of budget you have but the motor and even the whole assembly is not very expensive through Rockauto.
Or, you can find usable units at the pick and pulls for $10 or so. So for $30 and little time, you my resolve your problem
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Old 08-08-2020, 09:42 AM   #5
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

$27 and change at Rock Auto. I'd just leave it alone until you have the $30. Not a hard job to do.
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Old 08-08-2020, 10:12 AM   #6
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

Only 20 times in 100K miles?
Remember.
The radiator cooling fan comes every time the AC comes on too.
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Old 08-08-2020, 10:31 AM   #7
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

GL4202, members have given goods suggestions on inexpensive repairs. The electronics is on the pcm side, nothing physically connected to the water pump for it to run. One temperature sensor in the cooling system tells the pcm coolant temps. When hot enough, the pcm electronically commands the fan relay to close a set of electrical contacts sending 12v to power the fan. When temps drop, the pcm disables this command and the fan stops. You can perform a simple test with a 12v bulb or multimeter to measure for 12 power on the cooling fan connector.

With ignition off, locate the cooling fan relay in the engine fuse panel, remove it and examine labeling for relay pinouts. Pins 85 and 86 are the coil connections for the pcm to command the relay to power up. Pins 30 and 87 are the contacts in the relay, open - fan off, closed - fan on. All you have to do is insert a paper clip into relay terminal sockets 30 and 87 to send 12v power immediately to the cooling fan. Either the fan turns on or is worn out. Carefully nudge a fan blade to see if the fan runs. If its dead, disconnect the fan connector and either use a12 bulb across both terminals or measure both pins for 12v. If 12v is measured or the bulb lights up, power and wiring are fine - the cooling fan is toast.

If you get this far to confirm a dead fan, put the relay back in and leave everything as is. Nothing needs to be removed, disconnected or modified. Consider suggestions given for the cheapest repair.
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Old 08-08-2020, 10:38 AM   #8
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toggenburg View Post
Only 20 times in 100K miles?
Remember.
The radiator cooling fan comes every time the AC comes on too.
no AC
I also have a fan controller that is set to 210. I also have a LED light on my dash that comes on when the fans come on. My temperature currently runs around 192 ~195 with a AC Delco / Motorad thermostat. When I ran the Stant, it was running around 205
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Old 08-08-2020, 06:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

personally leave it in and pull it and change motor if it is motor could be relay or power issue when u get money its not a hard job to change or figure it out
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Old 08-09-2020, 05:57 AM   #10
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by laser3kw View Post
If it doesn't work, why remove it?
Secondly, (you know what's coming next), fix the underlying problem.
You state you "don't have the money to fix it", but do you have enough money to buy another car? That's what will happen. Overheat> crack the head> dead car.
If the car is overheating in traffic (sitting still / stop light), start with replacing the thermostat, that's only $15 - less than a tank of gas.

Just for reference, in the 10 years (100,000 miles?) I've driven my 2000 SOHC, the number of times the fan has come on is less than 20. So if yours is coming on at all, shows there is a problem.
good luck, keep us posted
I hate to be that dude but I wanna take it out because racecar. I wanna have fun with it or else whats the point lol. Less weight, cleaner engine bay, more airflow thru radiator (and after another change hopefully soon, I ll have a low pressure zone under the car and high pressure zone at the back of the hood so air will flow thru the engine bay=lower intake temp) , and of course cause I like tinkering with cars anyways lol. I keep my eye on the temp gauge all day, she warms up fine, it stays at perfect operating temperature all of the time, if im stuck at a light forever or something it starts to go over the middle line, anything after that I just turn her off. It takes a while for that to happen. Thats why I think the thermostat is fine. Im gonna put heat resistant tape on the airbox and battery, and wrap the exhaust manifold with heat wraps like on some bikes... Hopefully that will help keeping under-hood temps down, not that theyre too hot, but cooler air going into the engine will help with fuel econ and power. Thank you all for your help
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Old 08-09-2020, 08:29 AM   #11
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

seems like a lot of work to save 5 lbs, lol. You can save that much by driving with one less gallon of gas in the tank.

If you decide to remove it, just cover the pigtail to protect from water and dust, and tape/zip tie it out of the way.

Electric fan, so no parasitic losses by keeping it in there. Nothing else is affected AFAIK, as the only connection is electric power. PCM sends the "on" signal but does not get feedback so no check engine lights if fan does not turn on (other than when your car overheats).

I'm pretty sure you don't have the AC on while racing and the PCM will turn the fan off over a certain speed (40~60 mph?) regardless of whether the AC is on or not, so keeping a working or broken fan in there will have negligible effect on your racing. I'd be thinking more about racing with a SOHC engine, gearbox, and suspension, unless the racing involves lower gears and lower rpms and HP doesn't matter that much

You might be able to improve cooling slightly depending on where you live by increasing the % of water vs antifreeze in the system - bad idea if you live where it gets far freezing in the winter unless you change the mix again in the winter.

I've also heard good things about an additive called Water Wetter, which was about $10 last I checked. A lot of tracks forbid coolant as spills make the track very slippery, so you have to run straight water, but Water Wetter is permitted and they've measured lower temps with the additive

Never tried it myself, but maybe rodding out the pre-cat could lower underhood temps - get the exhaust moving out of the manifold a little quicker. Not sure what heat-resistant tape you are using or how much it costs, but for the air intake tube, might be cheaper to wrap Reflectix around it and zip tie in place. Looks like it is ~$13-17 for a 16" x 25' roll and it can also be used for sound insulation. I think I put a little bit between my headliner and the car's roof to insulate the interior.

Cooler air will help with power (slightly) but not fuel economy on these cars.

Higher intake temps will increase fuel economy but reduce power - PCM wll retard timing and reduce fuel (to match reduced oxygen in the hot air) - if you search the forum, hot air intakes are popular with the MPG crowd with documented results.
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Last edited by alordofchaos; 08-09-2020 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 08-09-2020, 04:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
seems like a lot of work to save 5 lbs, lol. You can save that much by driving with one less gallon of gas in the tank.

If you decide to remove it, just cover the pigtail to protect from water and dust, and tape/zip tie it out of the way.

Electric fan, so no parasitic losses by keeping it in there. Nothing else is affected AFAIK, as the only connection is electric power. PCM sends the "on" signal but does not get feedback so no check engine lights if fan does not turn on (other than when your car overheats).

I'm pretty sure you don't have the AC on while racing and the PCM will turn the fan off over a certain speed (40~60 mph?) regardless of whether the AC is on or not, so keeping a working or broken fan in there will have negligible effect on your racing. I'd be thinking more about racing with a SOHC engine, gearbox, and suspension, unless the racing involves lower gears and lower rpms and HP doesn't matter that much

You might be able to improve cooling slightly depending on where you live by increasing the % of water vs antifreeze in the system - bad idea if you live where it gets far freezing in the winter unless you change the mix again in the winter.

I've also heard good things about an additive called Water Wetter, which was about $10 last I checked. A lot of tracks forbid coolant as spills make the track very slippery, so you have to run straight water, but Water Wetter is permitted and they've measured lower temps with the additive

Never tried it myself, but maybe rodding out the pre-cat could lower underhood temps - get the exhaust moving out of the manifold a little quicker. Not sure what heat-resistant tape you are using or how much it costs, but for the air intake tube, might be cheaper to wrap Reflectix around it and zip tie in place. Looks like it is ~$13-17 for a 16" x 25' roll and it can also be used for sound insulation. I think I put a little bit between my headliner and the car's roof to insulate the interior.

Cooler air will help with power (slightly) but not fuel economy on these cars.

Higher intake temps will increase fuel economy but reduce power - PCM wll retard timing and reduce fuel (to match reduced oxygen in the hot air) - if you search the forum, hot air intakes are popular with the MPG crowd with documented results.

Yeah 5lbs isnt much, but after a while these smaller things will add up. I can feel a *huge* change in accel when a friend is in the car, so eventually it will pay off. Thank you for all of this info, very valuable... I ll also look into the Reflectix
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Old 08-09-2020, 04:43 PM   #13
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
GL4202, members have given goods suggestions on inexpensive repairs. The electronics is on the pcm side, nothing physically connected to the water pump for it to run. One temperature sensor in the cooling system tells the pcm coolant temps. When hot enough, the pcm electronically commands the fan relay to close a set of electrical contacts sending 12v to power the fan. When temps drop, the pcm disables this command and the fan stops. You can perform a simple test with a 12v bulb or multimeter to measure for 12 power on the cooling fan connector.

With ignition off, locate the cooling fan relay in the engine fuse panel, remove it and examine labeling for relay pinouts. Pins 85 and 86 are the coil connections for the pcm to command the relay to power up. Pins 30 and 87 are the contacts in the relay, open - fan off, closed - fan on. All you have to do is insert a paper clip into relay terminal sockets 30 and 87 to send 12v power immediately to the cooling fan. Either the fan turns on or is worn out. Carefully nudge a fan blade to see if the fan runs. If its dead, disconnect the fan connector and either use a12 bulb across both terminals or measure both pins for 12v. If 12v is measured or the bulb lights up, power and wiring are fine - the cooling fan is toast.

If you get this far to confirm a dead fan, put the relay back in and leave everything as is. Nothing needs to be removed, disconnected or modified. Consider suggestions given for the cheapest repair.


Thank you for telling me how it works, Ill test everything as you said
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Old 08-09-2020, 10:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

Save big money at Menards! lol, Reflectix is $11 there, just noticed you were in WI
https://www.menards.com/main/buildin...4452048269.htm
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Old 08-10-2020, 02:11 AM   #15
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GL4202 View Post
2002 SL sohc stick ... My cooling fan doesnt turn on anymore and I dont have money to fix it, and as long as I keep her moving she doesnt overheat, so i’d rather delete it. I would imagine thatd be easy to detach, but is there any electronics that could get messed up or affect other parts of the car? How would I do that safely? Would i be able to take off a related pump or minimize the parasitic loss?. I know basic car mechanics but nothing about electronics. Any help is appreciated, thank you
I had a similar problem recently on my 02 SL1. The fans are actually really easy to work on and there is a great guy called Richpin on youtube that specializes in S-series repair videos that has a video on diagnosing what is wrong. I like to check his videos before doing a repair to make sure I haven't overlooked something. In my case, the motor was shot, so I spent $30 on replacement motor, lifted the fan shroud out and swapped out the motor. Took me about an hour and I had never done the repair before.

Here's the video on fan diagnostics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E6vbQoXSqQ

As mentioned above, not having the fan working can be really costly if you are standing in traffic or planning on using the A/C, especially in summer. Blown headgaskets are a really expensive, really possible consequence of overheating, I would know; RIP my old Dodge Durango. Prevention is cheaper than the cure.

Last edited by zuegnull; 08-10-2020 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 08-10-2020, 04:13 AM   #16
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuegnull View Post
I had a similar problem recently on my 02 SL1. The fans are actually really easy to work on and there is a great guy called Richpin on youtube that specializes in S-series repair videos that has a video on diagnosing what is wrong. I like to check his videos before doing a repair to make sure I haven't overlooked something. In my case, the motor was shot, so I spent $30 on replacement motor, lifted the fan shroud out and swapped out the motor. Took me about an hour and I had never done the repair before.

Here's the video on fan diagnostics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E6vbQoXSqQ

As mentioned above, not having the fan working can be really costly if you are standing in traffic or planning on using the A/C, especially in summer. Blown headgaskets are a really expensive, really possible consequence of overheating, I would know; RIP my old Dodge Durango. Prevention is cheaper than the cure.


Damn son coming in clutch! Thank you for showing me this channel and yeah I make sure shes moving and temp stays right
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Old 08-12-2020, 09:56 PM   #17
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Default Re: Cooling fan delete, electronics?

I just followed that video yesterday myself lol

I ended up finding a rusty fan motor today. 30 minutes and she's back on the road cooling with no issues. Hardest part is pulling the fan up pass the AC lines, they sort of get in the way of the bulk of the motor... Other than that, easy swap, especially when you're a parts hoarder and keep random spare parts like fan motors on the shelf in the garage like myself


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