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Old 01-05-2005, 09:54 PM   #1
saturn_guy
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Default Question for 5 speed vue owners?

I have always known how to drive a stick but this is the first one i have owned and i have a couple of questions. Under hard acceleration we all know that we can get to 60 mph in third gear and alot of times i go straight from third to fifth gear am i doing any damage to the engine or transmission by doing this. second question is am i doing any damage by bogging down the engine, an example is that i can accelerate in fifth gear from about 25 mph it struggles till about 35 mph then it smooths out. like if you were slowing down for a red light and it turned green . lastly by doing the last question an i hurting or helping gas mileage?

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Old 01-05-2005, 10:13 PM   #2
Mistomax
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2004 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn_guy
I have always known how to drive a stick but this is the first one i have owned and i have a couple of questions. Under hard acceleration we all know that we can get to 60 mph in third gear and alot of times i go straight from third to fifth gear am i doing any damage to the engine or transmission by doing this.
No. The transmission doesn't care what gear you are in. To a point. I don't know that I'd be shifting from 5th to 2nd at 70 mph. Then neither the engine nor the tranny will like you.

Quote:
second question is am i doing any damage by bogging down the engine, an example is that i can accelerate in fifth gear from about 25 mph it struggles till about 35 mph then it smooths out. like if you were slowing down for a red light and it turned green . lastly by doing the last question an i hurting or helping gas mileage?
Yes, it's particularly hard on the engine to do that. The real question is, why would you want to do that in the first place? Just downshift to the correct gear. That's the thing about driving a manual. You actually have to pay careful attention and not be lazy. That's why you got one, right?

...
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Old 01-05-2005, 11:08 PM   #3
miataman
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

i go 2nd to 5th alot in the miata

if you shift too low may have clutch damamge

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Old 01-06-2005, 01:54 AM   #4
Dante
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2002 SL2
Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

I used to go from 3rd to 5th in my truck quite a lot. I'd basically run 0 to 60, using 1st, 2nd, 3rd, as if I were running the quarter mile, then when I hit the speed I was going to drive (i.e. 55 in a 50 or whatever), I'd just shift to 5th, assuming it was fast enough. You don't *have* to use 4th, if you don't want. However, to get the best fuel economy, you probably don't want to be revving it up high enough in 3rd to make a smooth shift to 5th. Typically, you have to have the engine revved past 4k to shift to 5th and not bog it (depending on the gearing of the car and the engine, I can't say from experience in the Vue, only my experience with other cars, mostly my truck, which had a very similarly powered engine and a body about the same weight as the Vue). For best fuel economy and the least wear on all parts, heed that shifter light and just gently shift when it asks you to do so. If you get in a hurry, you can flog the gas and rake it through the gates, but eventually your tranmission will pay the price. Trust me, I know.

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Old 01-06-2005, 03:19 AM   #5
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

If I am driving spiritedly, I skip gears, but make sure the revs are matched so that is's not like the clutch has to catch the engine up to the speed of the input shaft. If you can do it without jerking or making the engine have to lose or gain revs to match, you won't hurt anything. The 5-3 downshift is nice on the highway at 65 or so to get around a pesky car, but you have to give it a decent kick and run the revs up high to match without causing issues, if you aren't afraid to.

As far as the low shifting - if you hear it chugging, you should shift to the next gear down or back out of the gas. It's hard to truely lug the 2.2 because of how low the VUE is geared, but it shouldn't shudder and chug. I have found for best fuel economy, shift at about 2K RPM every time and keep a very gentle foot on the accelerator, and you won't make it shudder, and can pull damn near a 30 MPG average out of a tank. Merging like this obviously isn't safe unless noone is on the roads, so keep this in mind.

I guess to sum it up, if you are confident in your shifting ability, and have gotten the hang of matching revs with the 2.2, which can be stupidly hard at times, don't be afraid to skip a gear when shifting.

~D.J.~

...
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Old 01-06-2005, 05:04 AM   #6
robert_vue
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

I love dropping a gear or 2 to make it through the yellow (at safe speeds)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistomax
Just downshift to the correct gear. That's the thing about driving a manual. You actually have to pay careful attention and not be lazy. That's why you got one, right?

...
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03 VUE: Oct 15, 2002 - Dec 5, 2004 R.I.P.

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Old 01-06-2005, 05:59 AM   #7
cohocarl
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

I've always read that "lugging" any motor is not good for it. I'm assuming due to the motor being at a relatively low rpm, and low oil pressure, you'd not want to stress it more than it needs to.

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Old 01-06-2005, 01:04 PM   #8
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

I make the 3 to 5 shift all the time when I get up to 40 and have a long stretch of road to go before I stop.

If you follow the shift light, you'll be in 5th at about 32 mph. That's fine if you're going to stay there for a bit, otherwise it's just one more shift off your clutch's life.

I find I have very little need to downshift. I'll leave it in neutral as I slow down to a stop, and coast with the clutch in for long distances if the light is red way down the road and I know I'll have to stop. The brakes are for stopping the car; using the engine to slow down (unless you're on a long downhill and the brakes would overheat) is pretty tough on the crank, pistons, rods and bearings.

Yes, driving a manual trans makes you be more in tune with driving, that's for sure.

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Old 01-06-2005, 01:31 PM   #9
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

see, i thought riding the clutch was bad.

and how is letting off the gas to slow down hurting the engine??

...
2000 Honda Civic Si -- [I]SOLD[/I]
2004 Saturn Vue (white)
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Old 01-06-2005, 02:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

Simply allowing the engine to drag speed down, or careful downshifting, will not do any harm.

Downshifting aggressively by revving the engine waaay up just by dragging it up with the clutch (not bliping the throttle) wears the clutch out faster of course.

And as miataman mentioned, somthing like a 5-2 or 5-1 at high speed (if you dont grind up the trans. doing it ) can supposedly spin the clutch disc so fast that the lining overcomes the centripetal force of the rivets and cracks or comes apart.

Last edited by MaxSL2; 01-06-2005 at 02:19 PM..

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Old 01-06-2005, 02:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaTiRo
see, i thought riding the clutch was bad.

and how is letting off the gas to slow down hurting the engine??
Yep, ridiing with your foot resting on the clutch is bad. Also, long gentle deacceleration with the engine in gear actually encourages oiling of the upper cylinder walls, and is generally favorable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn_guy
second question is am i doing any damage by bogging down the engine, an example is that i can accelerate in fifth gear from about 25 mph it struggles till about 35 mph then it smooths out. like if you were slowing down for a red light and it turned green . lastly by doing the last question an i hurting or helping gas mileage?
'Lugging' the engine, because of the rapid fluctuations to the load surfaces for the bearings, pins, rods, and gears can cause 'sloppiness' in the drivetrain, and premature failure of parts. Lugging is doubly bad because it also can cause detonation or knocking, which can be unheard because of the noise in the drivetrain. It will actually hurt gas mileage, because the computer will actually richen the fuel mixture to stave off detonation. Keeping the engine under a moderate load, in the proper gear allows the computer to come closest to the stoichiometrically optimum mixture for gas mileage.

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Old 01-06-2005, 04:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaTiRo
...and how is letting off the gas to slow down hurting the engine??
I didn't say that. Let me be more clear.

Leaving the car in gear is a good idea in case you need to accelerate. HOWEVER, it's not a good idea to downshift from 5th, to 4th, to 3rd, etc. every time you stop. It puts almost twice the wear on your clutch and
transmission.

In older cars (think 70's) it's a bad idea to leave the clutch to the floor when slowing down to a stop, the clutch would still wear. That's not the case with new hydraulic clutches; there's not much wear with the pedal all the way out or all the way in. Couldn't tell you the reason, but you can go research it if you want.

There all sorts of articles like this on the internet:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/busine...-7387536c.html

Look, your engine will obviously last longer if it runs at idle more than you do 2500 rpms. Wouldn't you think?

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Old 01-06-2005, 07:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

I do the 3rd to 5th all the time, AND I also start out in 2nd alot. never had the need to downshift from 5 to 3 on the highway; down to 4th is enough.

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Old 01-06-2005, 08:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

I'm always worried about my rotors (brakes), so I tend to downshift more. Should I be more concerned with my clutch and transmission than my rotors and brakes (which yes are probably easier to replace than the clutch and transmission, but still).

Quote:
Originally Posted by VUEnumber1
HOWEVER, it's not a good idea to downshift from 5th, to 4th, to 3rd, etc. every time you stop. It puts almost twice the wear on your clutch and
transmission.

...
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03 VUE: Oct 15, 2002 - Dec 5, 2004 R.I.P.

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Old 01-06-2005, 08:38 PM   #15
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_vue
I'm always worried about my rotors (brakes), so I tend to downshift more. Should I be more concerned with my clutch and transmission than my rotors and brakes (which yes are probably easier to replace than the clutch and transmission, but still).
that's the point- it's cheaper to do brake work. the only reason to downshift years ago was because the brake technology was so bad. my 1st car was a '65 malibu with a 283 and a 4 speed, and the brakes were non-power drums w' a single resivoir master cylinder! downshifting was the ONLY way to stop. these days, brakes are so good, let them do what they are designed to do. besides, most automatic cars don't downshift for you until you come to a stop. you would be doing the same thing.

...
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Old 01-06-2005, 08:53 PM   #16
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn_guy
...an example is that i can accelerate in fifth gear from about 25 mph it struggles till about 35 mph then it smooths out. like if you were slowing down for a red light and it turned green . lastly by doing the last question an i hurting or helping gas mileage?
Just remember, higher gear/lower rpm does not always mean better gas mileage. You can put it in fifth at lower speed but the engine is no where near the rpm where is produces peak power/torque so you'll probably end up using more gas than normal to get up to speed unless you accelerate at a great-grandma sort of rate.

About a year ago I did an experiment where for 1 tank of gas I did not use 5th gear at all. I do about 65-70% highway driving, and when I was on the highway I was turning 4000+ rpm all the time (I wouldn't do this on a regular basis, it was just for my rpm vs. fuel use experiment). At the end of that tank of gas I found that my fuel economy during the time I shunned 5th was within 1 mpg of my usual rate. This showed me that rpm is not always as important as where the engine makes most of it's power and runs most efficiently.

...
●● If it doesn't have a clutch, I'm not interested ●● Vive la bote manuelle ●●

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Old 01-06-2005, 11:47 PM   #17
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_vue
I'm always worried about my rotors (brakes), so I tend to downshift more. Should I be more concerned with my clutch and transmission than my rotors and brakes (which yes are probably easier to replace than the clutch and transmission, but still).
Brakes are cheap. Clutches are expensive. Not to mention that brakes are much more efficient and predictable at slowing you down.

...
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Old 01-07-2005, 01:25 AM   #18
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Happy Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VUEnumber1

In older cars (think 70's) it's a bad idea to leave the clutch to the floor when slowing down to a stop, the clutch would still wear. That's not the case with new hydraulic clutches; there's not much wear with the pedal all the way out or all the way in. Couldn't tell you the reason, but you can go research it if you want.
Wow that is great info to read!!

I have always been under the impression that it damaging to leave the clutch pedal pressed after coming to a stop. I.E. "things" would continue to spin and wear while the vehicle was at rest.

I have always "clutched-in" after stopping, shifted to neutral, and then "clutched-out" while waiting...brake on, of course.

Essentially, pressing the clutch twice as necessary each time.

Out of curiousity, how many of you leave the clutch pressed to th floor while waiting at a stop light??

Thanks....

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Old 01-07-2005, 03:51 AM   #19
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

I'm a member of the neutral at the light with the pedal out group. I've done the research and read up on this - I don't want to accelerate the wear on my throwout bearing any more than is needed.
~D.J.~

...
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2002 VUE FWD4m - Gone but not forgotten. 5/14/2002 - 10/31/2011

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Old 01-07-2005, 04:25 AM   #20
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Default Re: Question for 5 speed vue owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioVueBoy
I'm a member of the neutral at the light with the pedal out group. I've done the research and read up on this - I don't want to accelerate the wear on my throwout bearing any more than is needed.
~D.J.~
Same here-- unless a) I'm in a really big hurry and going to race off the line or b) if I know the light is changing within 5 seconds, I pop it into neutral and let off the clutch.

...
●● If it doesn't have a clutch, I'm not interested ●● Vive la bote manuelle ●●

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