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Old 04-09-2010, 10:57 PM   #1
SaturnNJeep
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Default For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

I'm doing some research on what to put in my SC2. I've read Bill Murray's oil experiments, and, so far, like the results for the Rotella T. The only problem is, which Rotella T did he, or you, use? So far, I've found the Rotella T6 in 5W40 at Advance, but, online, I've seen T5 and T3, which both seem to be synthetic blends. I'm at a loss here, which one should I try using to help with the oil consumption? Thanks!!

Jerry

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Old 04-09-2010, 11:47 PM   #2
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

The 5w-40 is a T6 designation. http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ucts_home.html

The Rotella 5w-40 oil is a 100% PAO synthetic oil. There is no non 100% synthetic oil 5w-40 from Shell.

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Old 04-10-2010, 02:32 AM   #3
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The 5w-40 is a T6 designation. http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ucts_home.html

The Rotella 5w-40 oil is a 100% PAO synthetic oil. There is no non 100% synthetic oil 5w-40 from Shell.
Yep, that's the stuff I have in my DOHC now. Seems like it does a pretty good job holding particulates in suspension and has a robust cleaning package. Good low-temperature behavior this past winter, and very little oil consumption. It has a robust cleaning package to boot.

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Old 04-10-2010, 10:04 AM   #4
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

It is a 2007 and newer diesel engine formulation. The additive package is formulated to address the cam/follower wear issue also.

You will experience about the same results with any 100% PAO oil. The biggest issue is the grade mark is a band of acceptable viscosities and you should actually compare the viscosity/temperature numbers when comparing oils and not get wound up in 0w-30 vs 5w-40 as they can be practically identical in actuality. Cold pour point, viscosity index, and viscosity/temperature data are the points of comparison. I have been using Amsoil HDD 5w-30 which is probably very close and is a 2007 and older formulation which contains considerably higher levels of zinc and phosphorus.

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Old 04-10-2010, 10:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

Thanks, guys. Well I went to Pep Boys and when I grabbed two gallons of the Rotella T6 off the shelf, there were two behind them marked just Rotella T, but, they had the same blue jug, and the 5W40 spec. It also rung up the same as the T6, and both said fully synthetic. So, this makes me think that these two were the same, just with different labels. The interesting thing is, they say on the jug label that it meets Spec SM for gas engines, so, i take this as a good thing.

Anyway, I changed to this Rotella T (T6), and put on a Pure One filter. I've got a question, maybe you guys would know. With my '92 Jeep with the 4.0 I6, I'm able to put a larger then stock filter on my engine, but, have to add an extra quart. It's the same diameter as the stick size filter, but, it's longer. Do they make anything like that for the Saturn 1.9L engines? just curious, thanks!!

Jerry

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Old 04-10-2010, 11:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

The big filter is a M1-209 or your Pure One equivalent. The big filter is good out to 7500 miles max and its better to pitch it at 6000. The oil is still good though.

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Old 04-11-2010, 07:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

Thanks, OldNuc! I got the spec on the Pure One big filter, a number PL20195, while the current one I have on there now is the PL10241. How much more oil do you need to put in the engine with this filter? For my Jeep when I did this, I needed another 3/4 quart, so, I just added 1 quart to make it an even 7 quarts.

We'll see how this goes, I'll post the mileages on here with the oil consumption as well.

Jerry

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Old 04-11-2010, 09:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

You end up with about 4 1/2 quarts in the engine. Let it sit overnight on a nice level concrete slab and check it in the morning. Each diamond is 3.2 oz.

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Old 04-12-2010, 07:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

Over on BITOG, Johnny the guy retired from Pennzoil says the Shell is not a PAO but a Type III. I don't think it makes much difference, something for the Amsoil versus Mobil debaters to keep them engaged, LOL.

The Rotella 5W40 I used was the old blue bottle. It was probably equivalent to something between their new T5 and T6 grades.

These days I'm becoming convinced the 5W20s are a good match for our cars. I know it's counter-intuitive for an oil burner, but I get 4000 miles/qt on those grades and the car runs well. I will say most of my driving is around town and not freeway cruising.

Dr. Haas over on BITOG has a theory that the thin oils work well on engines that have oil ring issues.

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Old 04-12-2010, 08:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

It's interesting that you mention burning less oil on 5W20. Some here have stated that ATF has reduced their oil consumption as they are really just thinning their oil. I'd much rather give 5W20 a try than ATF. Dr Haas has some very interesting ideas.

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Old 04-12-2010, 09:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

Shell clearly states in plain english on the company website that the 5w-40 T6 is a 100% PAO synthetic. The others in their line are not however. I would say that Johnny's info is a bit out of date. The only Mobil-1 that is a PAO synthetic is the ones labeled "Extended Performance".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Murray View Post
Over on BITOG, Johnny the guy retired from Pennzoil says the Shell is not a PAO but a Type III. I don't think it makes much difference, something for the Amsoil versus Mobil debaters to keep them engaged, LOL.

The Rotella 5W40 I used was the old blue bottle. It was probably equivalent to something between their new T5 and T6 grades.

These days I'm becoming convinced the 5W20s are a good match for our cars. I know it's counter-intuitive for an oil burner, but I get 4000 miles/qt on those grades and the car runs well. I will say most of my driving is around town and not freeway cruising.

Dr. Haas over on BITOG has a theory that the thin oils work well on engines that have oil ring issues.

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Old 04-12-2010, 09:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

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Originally Posted by westwind999 View Post
It's interesting that you mention burning less oil on 5W20. Some here have stated that ATF has reduced their oil consumption as they are really just thinning their oil. I'd much rather give 5W20 a try than ATF. Dr Haas has some very interesting ideas.
Using an oil that will have a lower viscosity at operating temperature will reduce oil consumption, if that oil consumption is due to oil ring sticking/clogging. Works almost everytime it has been tried. Now, ask yourself what the down side of this is, there is one. I think Dr. Haas mentioned it at one point.

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Old 04-12-2010, 10:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

I have been running Syntec 0-30 in the winter and Mobil ep 10-30 in the summer. I have run this for the past 2 years. Before this I was running 5-30 valvoline. Right now I am at 5000 miles on my winter blend and have added 2 qts, the oil is dark, but still clean. Last summer I went though 4 qts of the Mobil extended Performance to keep it topped up. I am thinking the lighter oil gets up into the rings and cleans them out better than the heavier oil. I usually change my oil twice a year, but am considering just changing the filter. I have also been using M1-209 and currently the pure one filter. I also plan to start doing used oil analysis to find out exactly whats happening with the oil and internal engine. I'm coming up on 200k and hoping to get to 300k so far so good.

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Old 04-12-2010, 11:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

This has be very interesting, guys!! Bill Murray, From what you described, I got exactly what you got. I'm thinking that what we have/had was very similar to the T6; the bottle color, the label, and even the price are dead on the same.

Well, I'm going to run this to my next oil change, then, switch to a 5W20 to see what that does in my car. Now, for the people that use the 5W20, any particular brand stick out, or, is synthetic better or worse then conventional for this weight/viscosity rating? Thanks!!

Jerry

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Old 04-12-2010, 11:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

Using a SAE 20 oil will result in a very thin oil film when compared to the SAE 30 at operating temperature. Film strength and film thickness are related and in a dyno based oil as thickness decreases so does film strength. When the oil film fails you have metal to metal contact. This is very not good. So, to be on the safe side you use a known brand 100% PAO synthetic. An oil film failure is the same as running the engine without oil, it will not run long.

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Old 04-13-2010, 08:43 PM   #16
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

Only time will tell. My 5W20s definitely aren't "synthetics"

My long term goal is to swap in one of those new ECOTEC 1.4 turbos from the Chevy Cruze. We'll see how many miles are left in the old Sat motor on 5W20.

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Old 04-13-2010, 10:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

Ford generated quite a letter to the EPA in regards to the 5w-20 mandate and the bottom line is an increase in wear and shortened service life of the engine. The ability to get away with the lighter oil is a function of the oil pump flow rate. If you have adequate flow then the only issue is excessive ring wear. What is usually seen is that oil consumption drops to a low value for a period and then shoots up to a very high value. The issue is again for how many miles does it stay low.

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Old 04-14-2010, 01:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

Interesting to me that Ford specs 5W20 for their gas V10s in F350s and motorhome chassis, categories where there are no fuel economy regs.
Hard to believe they would give up engine life in these applications where long service life is expected.

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Old 04-14-2010, 01:58 PM   #19
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

The 5w-20 is the new standard because of the overal CAFE standard for the fleet. The copy of the letter is over on BITOG if you wan tto read it.

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Old 04-14-2010, 04:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: For those that use Rotella 5W40 in their Saturn..

I still haven't found where it says 100% PAO on their USA site??????????

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