Help! P0341 Car stalling intermittently

[Slimbob]

I have a 98 SC2, with 16V and DOHC and the car was stalling intermittently and I retreived a P0341 code from the OBDII code reader.

This code says Cam Shaft Position Sensor. This car is not equipped with this sensor.

I have replaced the plugs and wires. And cleaned the Coil Pack tower terminals. Still same problem.

Can you confirm firing order 4-1-2-3? 4-1-2-3- is the plug wire locations on the coil packs from left to right as I face the engine.

What else could cause this stalling/drop in power?

Thank you,
Slimbob

[magtec]

firing order is correct.

there should be a clip holding wires 4 and 1 together, is it present?

[fdryer]

Firing order (correct), worn out/damaged plugs, frayed/damaged plug wires, fouled injector(s), foul gasoline, low/high fuel pressure, clogged fuel filter, corroded/damaged ignition coil(s), and corroded/damaged ignition control module. Most times it wires, plugs, coils or icm, needing cleaning or replacing. Other issues need equipment like a fuel pressure gauge, compression gauge, etc..

With 10 posts, has the original round nosed plastic coolant sensor been replaced with the flat nosed brass one? Thermostat? Both can cause a cold running engine that never comes up to operating temps - another reason for misfiring.

[Slimbob]

Magtec, Clip is there, I just wanted to confirm order. Thanks!

fdryer, The engine is coming up to temp. Problem occurs after at temp.
Original post - changed plugs and wires.
Just finished removing and cleaning all connections on coilpacks and ICM. used silicone heat sink grease under ICM mount.

Same problem.

I guess I'll have to bite the bullet on a new ICM. Or try Jnk yard.

Thooughts?

Thanks for input, both of you,

Slimbob

[fdryer]

Buy used ignition parts from a junk yard. Everyone doing this says this works cheaper than new parts prices.

[Slimbob]

Just replaced ICM ($30 w/coil paks) with one from junk yard. Same exect result.

Where is this plastic temperature sensor located? I was feeling the heater hose and it is hot but the radiator hoses both stay cold.

Temp gauge in car is reading normal.

Will replace the thermastat but need to know where the sensor you referenced is located.

Thanks,
Slimbob

[Greg1]

It's on the driver's side end of cylinder head.

[Slimbob]

OK,
Did all that I said above plus replaced the thermostat and Engine Coolant Temp Sensor. Car still stalled after reaching temp. Still no error codes.

Replaced the crankshaft position sensor and it all seams good now except for the Service/Wrench light is still on. Did I say no OBD II codes present?

Oh yeah, the water/coolant boiled out of the reservoir after replacing the thermostat. I guess you can't get all the air out and you have to be patient becausre there is no cap on the radiator. Several cool downs and top-offs.

Question,
Does this car have one of those timed/milage sensitive lights that comes on at a predetermined time to make you go to the dealer for ser vice you may not need and get the light reset?

Thanks for all your input,
Slimbob

[fdryer]

If I'm not mistaken, only 3rd generation Saturns have the Oil Life Monitor (OLM) where the engine program determines best oil use and length of time/mileage to arrive at the optimum oil change interval, making it a customized oil change light for each car. No two cars will have the same OLM light turning on at the exact same mileage.

Yours is a 2nd gen Saturn and doesn't have the OLM. The OLM is not mandatory for any owner to abide by or to have GM service the car. Its reset manually by anyone with a simple procedure.

Draining and replacing coolant for most cars using a coolant over flow container just requires a slightly modified refill procedure/topping off. The coolant container is the reservoir for the normal expansion/contraction of coolant with a small amount of air within. This container is part of the closed coolant system as its also pressurized with the cooling system. The cap is still a pressure cap and will provide a seal for raising coolant pressure to operating level as well as release excessive pressures when necessary. These plastic tanks will hold more than the specified 12-15 psi rating, safely.

When refilling after a full system flush, simply filling the container slowly and monitoring the amount of 50/50 anti-freeze will tell you how much coolant filled the system and any air. Roughly less than 2 gallons is used so a full gallon and the rest distilled water is par for Saturns. The key to filling is knowing how much was used and then letting the engine idle for 10 minutes or more to allow automatic air purging as the water pump forces coolant and air through the system to purge air into the coolant container. Leaving the cap off while idling and watching the container usually shows coolant level dropping almost immediately as a sign that air is being purged as coolant fills the empty voids. As soon as coolant level drops, continue topping off until most of the 2 gallons is used to refill the system. Leaving the container at the half way fill point will allow a short drive around and return to see if topping off is needed. Then checking again the next day should show either the system completely filled and not needing topping off or some coolant to fill to the mark.

[Slimbob]

fdryer,
Were you a Los angeles Ram and Hunter on TV? LOL!

"Yours is a 2nd gen Saturn and doesn't have the OLM. The OLM is not mandatory for any owner to abide by or to have GM service the car. Its reset manually by anyone with a simple procedure."

So can you explain the Service/Wrench light and on OBDII code? What is the simple procedure for turning this light off?

Thanks,
Slimbob

[fdryer]

I ain't talkin'!? You're the only member to guess...........

The Service Engine Soon (SES)/MIL/CES indicator means; ON - one or several emissions related diagnostic error code(s) is stored in memory for retrieval by a generic reader available free (Autozone/AAMCO/etc., read by any repair shop, personal OBD II reader bought anywhere or paying GM to read the error codes. In an emissions regulated state, the car won't pass emissions inspection until the cause of the error is found and fixed/repaired to extinguish the indicator at the next engine start or manually reset without the indicator turning on again.

The service wrench indicator means a manufacturer specific error code unrelated to emissions controls. Wrench codes can't be read by generic readers except for the better one$ or GM.

Resetting the SES indicator simply means; correct the problem and start the engine to allow the automatic diagnostics determine the error is fixed and turn off the light, manually pull the pcm B+/ecm B+ fuse to reset the engine computer memory or disconnect the battery negative cable for a minute. A correct repair or fix will allow resetting memory and erase the error code(s) but if the error/fault isn't corrected then the error light will reappear. No fooling the engine computer.

You managed to get ahead of everyone and find the cps as the main cause of heat related cps failure. The cps is in a unique position; since its the electronic equivalent of a heart beat, an intermittent/dead cps won't allow the pcm to determine the cause - the cps sends precise timing signals to allow the pcm to operate otherwise the pcm dies and cannot determine any faults. Its very rare for anyone to post a cps error code for the S-series. The cps allows the pcm to; run the fuel pump, ignition system, and pulse the injectors. No cps = no fuel pump, no ignition for spark, and no injector pulses, a DEAD engine.

[Slimbob]

Your secret is safe with me. Say hi to Dee Dee for me.

I have a generic OBDII code reader and it does not show a code. The Service and Wrench lights come on about a minute or two after the engine starts. No codes stored or pending.

Anyway. Engine is running great. Now, if I could get it to shift smoothly....

My son is a technician for a Honda dealer in Norristown, PA. I will ask him to take it in and try to turn off the lights.

Thanks again,
Slimbob

[fdryer]

If he's good and retrieves any code, write it/them down for posting/searching. Our library here, under OBD II Powertrain Codes, has a list of codes. Post the code(s).

Dee Dee is.........

[sbr65nj]

I had the same issue on my 2000 SL2 AT 145K miles three years ago. It was the EGR valve. As soon as I replaced it the issue went away. What clued me in to your situation was both the code you received and the fact that it would start to stall when you reached operating temp. Pretty easy repair to do. A few bolts and an electric connector.

Hope this helps

Stu