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Old 04-18-2010, 08:28 PM   #1
Bill Murray
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Default Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

I think we've decided the 2.0/2.2/2.4 Ecotec is too big (especially height wise) for a clean swap into the S Coupe.

The 1.4 Ecotec turbo in the Chevy Cruze will be rated at 138 hp / 148 tq and come with six speed transmissions both manual and auto. It sounds like a nice match and at 40 mpg in the 500lb heavier Cruze would be a real gas mizer in the Saturn.

Obviously it will be a few years before these are out there (and wrecked) in enough volume to produce a good supply of donor cars. But if anybody has any comments on this potential swap I'd like to hear them.

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Old 04-18-2010, 11:16 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

I'd think they'd be just as large, the 1.4 could be even taller as that engine will be direct injection.

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Old 04-18-2010, 11:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

pretty sure the problem with the 2.2L, etc ecotecs isn't really the height, you can always do a custom hood easily enough. The problem is all the custom parts and electronics to make it work in general, which isn't going to be substantially different with any other engine.

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Old 04-19-2010, 10:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

I've seen the engines fit in the bays, it was getting everything hooked up that drained bank accounts...

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Old 04-20-2010, 08:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

Bill -

This engine is currently made for Opels. I don't know where to look offhand, but I think you could do lots of homework on European websites and forums.

Before GM's crash they had a great engine website that displayed all the Ecotec variants. I can't find it anymore, but I did find this :

http://www.ecotecforum.com/
http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/archive/index.php

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Old 04-20-2010, 05:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

that 1.4 ecotec is not a real ecotec its just the name that GM has given all of its I4's now. Real ecotecs are designed off the same basic block (the one that started its american life as the L61, aka the 2.2 ecotec).

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Old 04-20-2010, 09:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

From what I have read the 1.4 is based on the euro 1.0/1.2 motors so it should be small enough to fit. Getting it all to work might be a challenge.

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Old 04-21-2010, 04:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

Leafy -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
that 1.4 ecotec is not a real ecotec its just the name that GM has given all of its I4's now. Real ecotecs are designed off the same basic block (the one that started its american life as the L61, aka the 2.2 ecotec).
Thanks for that information. I thought they were very close to being the same and/or shared a high % of parts.

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Old 04-21-2010, 04:18 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Murray View Post
I think we've decided the 2.0/2.2/2.4 Ecotec is too big (especially height wise) for a clean swap into the S Coupe.

The 1.4 Ecotec turbo in the Chevy Cruze will be rated at 138 hp / 148 tq and come with six speed transmissions both manual and auto. It sounds like a nice match and at 40 mpg in the 500lb heavier Cruze would be a real gas mizer in the Saturn.

Obviously it will be a few years before these are out there (and wrecked) in enough volume to produce a good supply of donor cars. But if anybody has any comments on this potential swap I'd like to hear them.
Nothing beats cubic inches except cubic dollars for making power. I consider it a step backwards to go to a smaller displacement, forced induction motor versus a more efficient (more HP/liter) and/or larger displacement motor for generating more power (138 HP from the high tech motor versus 124 HP from the lower tech Saturn DOHC motor, an 11% gain. No big gain for the headaches involved). Besides, you can always add forced induction to the larger motor.

If you consider the mechanical and electrical interface issues of using a non-Saturn drivetrain in an S-series Saturn why limit yourself to GM sourced poweretrains?

Steve

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Old 04-21-2010, 09:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

I would say the objectives are more power/torque + less mass (fun to drive), and better fuel economy. A combination of virtuous attributes.

I find the Cruze interesting because it will be produced in large volumes, available cheap on the salvage market (in a few years), comes with modern six speed transmissions, and probably will have decent support in the aftermarket.

It might be more fun to duplicate the Chevy LS into BMW swap, but I've got this wonderful 97 SC I've owned for 14 yrs that just sort of begs for an upgrade someday.

Appreciate all the inputs. Keep em coming.

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Old 04-22-2010, 09:16 AM   #11
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrocketman View Post
Nothing beats cubic inches except cubic dollars for making power.

Steve
That's a load of generalized crap.

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Old 04-22-2010, 10:31 AM   #12
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

Quote:
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That's a load of generalized crap.
"Nothing beats cubic inches except cubic dollars for making power."

Sure, it's a generalized statement, but if you compare the exceptions to the population at large it's true.

Steve

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Old 04-22-2010, 01:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Murray View Post
I've got this wonderful 97 SC I've owned for 14 yrs that just sort of begs for an upgrade someday.

Appreciate all the inputs. Keep em coming.
Have you seen the thread where someone has put a 2.0 TDI (IIRC) into their S-series? Running well from last report.

Edit: here it is
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...ghlight=diesel

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Old 04-23-2010, 09:41 AM   #14
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrocketman View Post
"Nothing beats cubic inches except cubic dollars for making power."

Sure, it's a generalized statement, but if you compare the exceptions to the population at large it's true.

Steve

1986 Corvette Convertible 5.7 liter L98/700R4 stock (and it will give an extensively modified Saturn a run for less money)
Factory stock turbochargers are always undersized in order to cater to the masses who want torque at 1500 when they forget to downshift. A properly sized turbo at even low boost will make up the difference of a much larger motor.

How far are you willing to prove displacement is better at the expense of weight, engine bay room, engine cost, and gas mileage?

If it takes a 5L NA engine to make the same power as a 2.5L turbo, is that okay?

Turbo's are simply more efficient then trying to shove more engine in a car.

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Old 04-23-2010, 11:02 AM   #15
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

yeah but that 400 hp in a 5L v8 na motor is a lot safer and more reliable than the same from a 2.5L I4 turbo motor. Think about the ideal case with no losses and junk, in the v8, each con rod only has to withstand 50 hp while while in the I4 each con rod has to withstand 100 hp. Thats a pretty big jump. not to mention the I4 is going to have higher cylinder pressures (more HG failures) and higher rpms.

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Old 04-23-2010, 11:13 AM   #16
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

We're at a point where a properly built 2.5L motor can easily withstand 400hp for 200k miles. Look at the 2jz; originally built in 1991, 3 liters, with NO engine upgrades can withstand over FIVE HUNDRED WHP for the life of the car.

For a drag car, large displacement F/I is amazing, for my daily, I'd be happy with a couple liters and a decent sized turbo. I enjoy making over 300whp and getting 30+ mpg, while having the car weigh close to stock.

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Old 04-23-2010, 11:15 AM   #17
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

yes but that supra motor was a lot more expensive to produce to get that safety margin.

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Old 04-23-2010, 11:41 AM   #18
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

True, with 20 year old technology.

The economy engines can support it, boost is now a very reliable option, and it is far more efficient then just increasing the displacement.

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Old 04-23-2010, 12:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

On the street, big torque is what you want, and at the lowest possible RPM. Someone compared a 400hp 5 liter V8 to a turbocharged 2.5 liter 4 cylinder, and brought up reliability with respect to connecting rod loads and cylinder pressure. The V8's biggest advantage is actually torque; probably in excess of 250 foot-pounds from 2000 RPM and up. And the turbo 4? lucky to produce 250 at 4000 or 5000 rpm. That's NOT where you want the power!

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Old 04-23-2010, 12:03 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ecotec 1.4 (Cruze turbo) swap potential?

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On the street, big torque is what you want, and at the lowest possible RPM. Someone compared a 400hp 5 liter V8 to a turbocharged 2.5 liter 4 cylinder, and brought up reliability with respect to connecting rod loads and cylinder pressure. The V8's biggest advantage is torque; probably in excess of 250 foot-pounds from 2000 RPM and up. And the turbo 4? lucky to produce 250 at 4000 or 5000 rpm. That's NOT where you want the power!
well thats where you want the power if you're racing. You want low end power for a street car and high rpm power for racing. I mean look at it this way when you're racing you only hit the low rpm band once, and thats in 1st gear, off the line, with the tires spinning. This is why I can beat my friends 08 civic si with my cavalier. Yeah i have more torque in a lighter car but all my torque is on the low end, it peaks at 4 k and drops sharply after that.

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