Saturn/Penske deal a farce from the start....Penske had no real plans to buy Saturn

[cavalier]

A conspiracy theory?

Maybe, but also just as likely a legitimate theory.

What better way for GM to string Saturn dealers along while it unloaded its huge surplus of vehicles.

Let's recruit Roger Penske - a known commodity with a name - to say he's going to buy Saturn.

Let's keep the "negotiations" going for months and months in a deal that should have taken weeks to complete - all the while buying GM time to sell down its Saturn inventory.

Then, on D-Day, ole Roger ole pal will say he can't find anyone to build him some cars beyond 2010.

Penske can't get a car builder behind him? The $800 million man?

My B.S. meter is at full alarm right now on this one.

What was he allegedly doing the last how many months in the way of trying to secure a car builder?

Oh wait, he WASN'T trying to secure a car builder.

I'm thinking someone at GM greased his palms and made a deal with him so that GM could continue to string along its dealer network and future customers with the promise of false hope.

So, exactly how much did you make off this deal, Roger?

Think about it, GM had its pick of 4-5 different companies to take over the Saturn brand and they chose Penkse....a ringer who never intended to buy Saturn.

Roger, your credibility as an auto enthusiast and as a human being just went out the window.

What a fraud.....guess we were all duped by this one.

GM's P.R. department did its job pulling the wool over everyone's eyes on this one.

And ole Penske was just along for the ride.

[VTHokie00SL2]

I had that thought way back when the sale of Saturn was first announced - in fact, I think I suggested it here on the forum! Who knows, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[RoadIon]

I know of a forum that one person said this is all smoke and mirrors by GM.
When this is all said and done I'll post that link if I get permission from the person.

[ptrentacosta]

Does this mean that GM will offer October incentives on remaining 2009 Saturns?

[l57]

Your theory could very well have some weight to it as far as GM is concerned. I know that here in Canada it was extremely obvious that something wasn't smelling right when it took Penske a lifetime to do his so-called due-diligence north of the border ( should have been a few weeks) only to announce that he wasn't interested.....of course GM Canada's Saturn inventory had been nicely sold off by the time the bad news came..lol.

[Astra La Vista!]

Originally Posted by cavalier

A conspiracy theory?

Maybe, but also just as likely a legitimate theory.

Interesting. Could you please provide proof?

[seamus1066]

It was not a farce...

In fact Roger Penske had already hired all the Management Personal that were working in the Parts Warehouse in Spring Hill a month ago and was working with GM on a package for those hourly working in the Warehouse to take an early retirement with GM and then go to work for Penske to continue working in the Warehouse.

Roger Penske had been to Spring Hill more than once and was here just a couple of weeks ago setting up his newly hired Management Team (the Old GM Management Team running the Warehouse) and the changes he wanted made to the Warehouse were being done and were still being finished as of today.....

So as of today, there are more unemployed here in Spring Hill, unless GM brings back the Management Personal who have been working for Penske this past month....The hourly employees were still GM employees and still have their jobs.

[RoadIon]

Closing time
You don't have to go home but you can't stay here

[wolfman]

Sorry for the cut and paste, but this story is all over the place on the boards:

I was both pleased and surprised by the initial Penske deal.
Not surprised that it fell apart at the 11th hour.
I also mentioned, on more than one occasion, that I thought that GM, Jill and company were trying to string the brand along long enough to dump inventories. Looks like cash for clunkers got rid of enough, but I doubt that Penske was part of some GM master plan to accompish that...GM has proven again and again that they are completely incapable of being that clever.

[SW2Muck]

Originally Posted by wolfman

GM has proven again and again that they are completely incapable of being that clever.

Couldn't have put it better! Now that Saturn is gone, does GM have anything the least bit appealing left anymore?

Thought, I'd never say this, but I'm starting to become a Ford fan. At least that company has a clue.

[GR898SL2]

Originally Posted by SW2Muck

Couldn't have put it better! Now that Saturn is gone, does GM have anything the least bit appealing left anymore?

The Equinox and Malibu are competitive for high-volume vehicles, and I have high hopes for the Regal.

Originally Posted by SW2Muck

Thought, I'd never say this, but I'm starting to become a Ford fan. At least that company has a clue.

With the new Fiesta and Focus on the way, Ford's lineup is looking very attractive. All Mulally needs to do now is retire the Ranger and Panthers and the oldest car in the stable will be five model years at best.

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by seamus1066

It was not a farce...

In fact Roger Penske had already hired all the Management Personal that were working in the Parts Warehouse in Spring Hill a month ago and was working with GM on a package for those hourly working in the Warehouse to take an early retirement with GM and then go to work for Penske to continue working in the Warehouse.

Roger Penske had been to Spring Hill more than once and was here just a couple of weeks ago setting up his newly hired Management Team (the Old GM Management Team running the Warehouse) and the changes he wanted made to the Warehouse were being done and were still being finished as of today.....

So as of today, there are more unemployed here in Spring Hill, unless GM brings back the Management Personal who have been working for Penske this past month....The hourly employees were still GM employees and still have their jobs.

Well, assuming this is true wasn't that convenient of Mr. Penske.

Let's see, he cons these people into retiring from GM so that when they're LAID OFF once the Saturn deal falls through they can't collect unemployment?

How much did this smooth move save GM?

Mr. Penske single-handedly made millions for GM by helping it clear out its remaining inventory AND conning its own employees into retiring so that GM's off the hook for them financially.

Again, with these moves made by Mr. Penske I hope, at least, that GM rewarded him handsomely (I'm sure the final numbers were agreed to at the time Penske announced his attempted "takeover" of Saturn, though).

So let's count who ole Roger-Doger Penske jacked around in the end:

1. The Saturn dealer network

2. Consumers

3. Saturn employees

Wow, he's gotta be feeling the love right now, eh?

And the worst is the spineless S.O.B. didn't even have the courtesy of letting the dealers know about it....they found out through the media as their pal Roger was mum.

That's real ethical of this "respected" businessman, don't you think?

Renault seems kinda quite on the matter to, no?

How could they not have at least floated the Penske deal before the board of directors prior to today? They, or Penske, ever hear of a trail baloon?

Instead, they want us to believe the Renault board rejected it at the 11th hour....as if they didn't know the attempt at a "purchase" by Penske was coming.

This whole think stinks and the stink is coming off the back of one Roger Penske.

[reedred]

Originally Posted by cavalier

Let's see, he cons these people into retiring from GM so that when they're LAID OFF once the Saturn deal falls through they can't collect unemployment?

How much did this smooth move save GM?

In the grand scheme of things, not much. Certainly not enough to make it worth Penske's while- if GM doesn't take those folks back, they're now his problem. I doubt he got the entire management team of a facility to make that move without any provision for what would become of them if the deal fell through anyway. If the people on management team feel they got screwed by this, I'm sure someone's already working on a lawsuit.

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by reedred

In the grand scheme of things, not much. Certainly not enough to make it worth Penske's while- if GM doesn't take those folks back, they're now his problem. I doubt he got the entire management team of a facility to make that move without any provision for what would become of them if the deal fell through anyway. If the people on management team feel they got screwed by this, I'm sure someone's already working on a lawsuit.

Granted, but this move combined with the help Penske provided in liquidating what remained of the Saturn inventory had to add up to a substantial amount for GM, since before our "knight on white horse Roger Penske" entered the picture Saturn sales were worse than now and dealerships were closing left and right.

And who knows if these people that allegedly were working for him as part of the management team were actually employees of his.

I wouldn't doubt for a second the arrangement might have called for them working as independent contractors until the Penske deal went through.

If that was the case, both Rog and GM are off the hook for them.

[Citation84]

cavalier: while I respect the thought process and your presentation of the theory that Penske may have been in on some scheme, please put the blame exactly where it belongs: GM.

If GM was involved in this "charade", then it is consistent with GM's management's treatment of Saturn as a brand and separate division from the very beginning.

Besides that: given their history of making decisions that would benefit the company, do you really think any of those D-Bags in the Ren Cen have the intelligence to pull off such a "scam"?

Sometimes it really is as simple as "it all fell through at the last minute". Ever put a bid in on a house or a car you really wanted ? Ever have that sale collapse right before signing on the dotted line ? It happens all the time.

Don't get me wrong: I enjoy your theory here, it gets the wheels going, but I really doubt Penske is the boogeyman you want him to be.

[crystal scan]

Originally Posted by ptrentacosta

Does this mean that GM will offer October incentives on remaining 2009 Saturns?

do you want a new saturn

[crystal scan]

Originally Posted by Citation84

cavalier: while I respect the thought process and your presentation of the theory that Penske may have been in on some scheme, please put the blame exactly where it belongs: GM.

If GM was involved in this "charade", then it is consistent with GM's management's treatment of Saturn as a brand and separate division from the very beginning.

Besides that: given their history of making decisions that would benefit the company, do you really think any of those D-Bags in the Ren Cen have the intelligence to pull off such a "scam"?

Sometimes it really is as simple as "it all fell through at the last minute". Ever put a bid in on a house or a car you really wanted ? Ever have that sale collapse right before signing on the dotted line ? It happens all the time.

Don't get me wrong: I enjoy your theory here, it gets the wheels going, but I really doubt Penske is the boogeyman you want him to be.

your funny, that would require the gm mangement to stop counting there richies and think

[2NDSOUT]

Originally Posted by Citation84

cavalier: while I respect the thought process and your presentation of the theory that Penske may have been in on some scheme, please put the blame exactly where it belongs: GM.

If GM was involved in this "charade", then it is consistent with GM's management's treatment of Saturn as a brand and separate division from the very beginning.

Besides that: given their history of making decisions that would benefit the company, do you really think any of those D-Bags in the Ren Cen have the intelligence to pull off such a "scam"?

Sometimes it really is as simple as "it all fell through at the last minute". Ever put a bid in on a house or a car you really wanted ? Ever have that sale collapse right before signing on the dotted line ? It happens all the time.

Don't get me wrong: I enjoy your theory here, it gets the wheels going, but I really doubt Penske is the boogeyman you want him to be.

Reminds me when my wife and I were looking at houses back in 2005. We were scheduled to do a walkthru to take a look at house. We enjoyed the house on the first walkthru, and talked with our realtor. We had a 2nd walkthru scheduled during the week and we were supposed to meet him at the house at 5:30 PM. We were walking out the apartment to go get in the car to take a look at the house for the 2nd walkthru. We were going to put a bid in on that house, when the realtor called my cellphone. His words were "There was another couple looking at the house in addition to you. They put in an offer just 10 minutes ago that was accepted by the sellers. Sorry, but if you have other houses that you are looking at, let's take a look at some of those houses."

We were a bit crushed, as we liked the house. Ironically, one of the other houses that we looked at, is literally around the corner from that house that we were going to bid on.

True Story.

[sven1]

In retrospect, after having owned several Saturns, I can't say I am going to miss them. I have had a couple of good ones, but all-in-all, crappy cars and crappy customer service drove me away.

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by Citation84

cavalier: while I respect the thought process and your presentation of the theory that Penske may have been in on some scheme, please put the blame exactly where it belongs: GM.

If GM was involved in this "charade", then it is consistent with GM's management's treatment of Saturn as a brand and separate division from the very beginning.

Besides that: given their history of making decisions that would benefit the company, do you really think any of those D-Bags in the Ren Cen have the intelligence to pull off such a "scam"?

Sometimes it really is as simple as "it all fell through at the last minute". Ever put a bid in on a house or a car you really wanted ? Ever have that sale collapse right before signing on the dotted line ? It happens all the time.

Don't get me wrong: I enjoy your theory here, it gets the wheels going, but I really doubt Penske is the boogeyman you want him to be.

True, maybe the theory gives GM too much credit because the way they've been run the last ten years, they certainly can't figure out jack out car building.

However, don't you think it's odd that we heard about Penske approaching Renault-Nissan as his preferred auto builder months ago and Penske apparently never had the president of Renault float the idea to the Board of Directors until the 11th hour?

Seriously, why would a businessman like Penske not find out well ahead of the deadline whether he had a commitment from the Board of Directors unless he wanted the deal to fall apart?

Getting the green light (or in this case the red light) ahead of time would have allowed him time to approach another automaker about a possible deal.

Nothing about this thing adds up given the alleged business acumen Penske supposedly has.