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Old 02-09-2006, 11:01 AM   #1
bibliotech
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2002 VUE 3.0L
Question Stability control

I remember a GM ad saying they will have VSC as standard equipment on all SUV's by '0_. What are the odds of the '07 Vue having it?
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:47 PM   #2
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Default Re: Stability control

GM says all SUVs will have it by the end of 2007, and all vehicles (cars included) by 2010.

Since the next generation VUE is due as a 2008 model (to be released in 2007), my guess is that they are not going to put stability control in the 07 models, as it is the last year for that design.

But then again, they are introducing the hybrid as an 07, so who knows?
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Old 02-09-2006, 02:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: Stability control

Well, since '07 models are released in '06, I wouldn't expect many '07s to have it. Most '08s on the other hand should.
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Old 02-09-2006, 05:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: Stability control

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerb
Since the next generation VUE is due as a 2008 model (to be released in 2007), my guess is that they are not going to put stability control in the 07 models, as it is the last year for that design.
That's what I would expect, too.
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: Stability control

Even on the AWD models?? YUK! That's why I bought the AWD (among other things). No silly nanny-ware to tell me when to let off the gas and kill the throttle!
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Old 02-10-2006, 08:11 AM   #6
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Default Re: Stability control

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Originally Posted by Dante
Even on the AWD models?? YUK! That's why I bought the AWD (among other things). No silly nanny-ware to tell me when to let off the gas and kill the throttle!
There is usually a switch to turn it off, just like with most traction control systems.
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Old 02-11-2006, 03:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: Stability control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante
Even on the AWD models?? YUK! That's why I bought the AWD (among other things). No silly nanny-ware to tell me when to let off the gas and kill the throttle!
It does a little more than that, unless you're able to selectively apply brakes to any number of the wheels to make the vehicle maintain your intended path. And you can still turn it off in most vehicles.
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Old 02-11-2006, 08:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Stability control

Quote:
Originally Posted by D C
It does a little more than that, unless you're able to selectively apply brakes to any number of the wheels to make the vehicle maintain your intended path. And you can still turn it off in most vehicles.
Yeah, I know, it's a good thing... save my bacon, all that... my wife's SL2 has the TC button which I have turned off in wet weather just to see how the car behaves, and it reminded me of my old bare-bones Toyota pickup.

If it only modulated the brakes, and not the throttle, I could deal with that, I suppose. The Vue, especially the RL, isn't exactly rollover prone, unless you do something pretty stupid I think, like drive it into a ditch sideways, that would do it. I've had my RLV run through some corners on the track with a pretty serious rate of speed, and although it leaned it was stable. It was pretty forgiving I thought.

I guess for the masses, this is A Good Thing.
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Old 02-11-2006, 10:48 PM   #9
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Default Re: Stability control

GM cars that have Active handling and traction control can be completely turned off........... well sort of. Cars with the automatic trans still have torque management which acts as a "abuse mode". An Example: if you are doing something which results in excessive tire spin, the computer will retard the timing or close the throttle blade or apply the brake & etc. In any case the car slows down to reduce tire spin. There is still quite some discussion with regard to torque mangement in stick shift equipped cars. Some people think it exists and others do not.

I would think that the same stability control/active handling/traction control systems present in other Gm cars will find its way into the Vue and function as it presently does in those cars.
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Old 02-11-2006, 11:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: Stability control

Believe me, if you enter a snowy corner too fast, you're going to WANT that stability control system to be cutting the throttle and applying the brakes to keep you out of the snow banks.
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Old 02-13-2006, 09:18 AM   #11
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Default Re: Stability control

Quote:
Originally Posted by D C
Believe me, if you enter a snowy corner too fast, you're going to WANT that stability control system to be cutting the throttle and applying the brakes to keep you out of the snow banks.
Yes, but "Stability Control" is not "Stupidity Control". If you're doing something that requires it to kick in, it's probably unsafe to be doing it in the first place.
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Old 02-13-2006, 12:51 PM   #12
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Default Re: Stability control

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-1
Yes, but "Stability Control" is not "Stupidity Control". If you're doing something that requires it to kick in, it's probably unsafe to be doing it in the first place.
I disagree completely.
If that were the case, then ABS shouldn't be needed because you shouldn't have been trying to brake that hard, and traction control shouldn't be needed because you shouldn't have been stepping on the gas that much. Nevermind that person that unexpectedly pulled out in front of you, or that ball that rolled into the road -perhaps with a kid chasing it- or that patch of ice or gravel that you didn't realize was there.

Stability control, like those other things are for the unexpected conditions that every driver encounters at some point.

Go flying down a snowy road and expect the stability control to get you around that hairpin corner, sure, you shouldn't have been doing that because it was unsafe to begin with. That evasive maneuver that you HAD to do to avoid hitting the deer that just jumpd out in front of you. Not so unsafe on the driver's part.
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Old 02-13-2006, 01:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: Stability control

Quote:
Originally Posted by D C
I disagree completely.
If that were the case, then ABS shouldn't be needed because you shouldn't have been trying to brake that hard, and traction control shouldn't be needed because you shouldn't have been stepping on the gas that much.
Gee, I can drive just fine without ABS/TC and have for almost 4 years of Michigan winters (read: heavy snow, no plow, no salt). It isn't that tough to drive sensibly in sub-optimal conditions. It's hard to tell from the cars in ditches this morning (two inches of snow after none for a week - freaks people out apparently), but I'm sure I'm not a vehicular-navigational anomaly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D C
Nevermind that person that unexpectedly pulled out in front of you,
If this person pulls out late enough that you hit them, no driver aides would have helped either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D C
or that ball that rolled into the road -perhaps with a kid chasing it-
We have peripheral vision for a reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D C
or that patch of ice or gravel that you didn't realize was there.
Again, driver incognizance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D C
Stability control, like those other things are for the unexpected conditions that every driver encounters at some point.
You can't correct everything drivers do. There's always going to be some instance where even the most advanced driver's aides won't help. If you need these things on vehicles, fine, but I don't. To me, they're an unnecessary expense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D C
Go flying down a snowy road and expect the stability control to get you around that hairpin corner, sure, you shouldn't have been doing that because it was unsafe to begin with.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D C
That evasive maneuver that you HAD to do to avoid hitting the deer that just jumpd out in front of you. Not so unsafe on the driver's part.
Again, being aware of your surroundings. If I know there are deer in the area (there are usually big yellow signs with a deer on them - at least in MI), then I'm especially on the look out, otherwise I keep track of what's in front of, beside, and behind me like any driver should.
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Old 02-13-2006, 04:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: Stability control

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-1

If this person pulls out late enough that you hit them, no driver aides would have helped either.
Wrong. Stability control will significantly increase the likelihood that you can make an evasive maneuver and avoid the other vehicle without losing control. Most people will either mash the brakes, swerve, or do both. Stability control is going to prevent a lot of people from ending up in the ditch, pointing the wrong way, or causing other accidents due to their lack of driving skill or road conditions. Not everyone is as skilled at driving as you may be.

Quote:
We have peripheral vision for a reason.

Again, driver incognizance.

You can't correct everything drivers do. There's always going to be some instance where even the most advanced driver's aides won't help. If you need these things on vehicles, fine, but I don't. To me, they're an unnecessary expense.

Again, being aware of your surroundings. If I know there are deer in the area (there are usually big yellow signs with a deer on them - at least in MI), then I'm especially on the look out, otherwise I keep track of what's in front of, beside, and behind me like any driver should.
If you think you're so aware of your surroundings that you're going to see every ball, every kid, every deer, every bit of ice, and every other obstacle regardless of terrain, trees, vehicles parked alongside the road, etc...you're either superman, you're seriously overestimating your driving ability and awareness, or you're the most paranoid slow-driver on the road. The bottom line is it's impossible to predict, or take advance notice of every hazard on the road.

"There's always going to be some instance where even the most advanced driver's aides won't help."
There are also a whole lot of instances where even the most basic of aides will mean the difference between an accident or not. If you don't like the thought of stability control, then buy a car without it, or turn it off. For the vast majority of people, it's a very good thing.

btw...how DO they get the deer to cross by those signs?
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Old 02-13-2006, 04:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: Stability control

Quote:
Originally Posted by D C
Wrong. Stability control will significantly increase the likelihood that you can make an evasive maneuver and avoid the other vehicle without losing control. Most people will either mash the brakes, swerve, or do both. Stability control is going to prevent a lot of people from ending up in the ditch, pointing the wrong way, or causing other accidents due to their lack of driving skill or road conditions. Not everyone is as skilled at driving as you may be

If you think you're so aware of your surroundings that you're going to see every ball, every kid, every deer, every bit of ice, and every other obstacle regardless of terrain, trees, vehicles parked alongside the road, etc...you're either superman, you're seriously overestimating your driving ability and awareness, or you're the most paranoid slow-driver on the road. The bottom line is it's impossible to predict, or take advance notice of every hazard on the road..
Wow, now you're getting personal (the first sign you're losing an argument). BTW, it is your responsibility as an operator of a 3000+ pound hunk of metal (or plastic, as the case may be) to be in control at ALL times - not just when your hunk of metal allows you to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D C
There are also a whole lot of instances where even the most basic of aides will mean the difference between an accident or not. If you don't like the thought of stability control, then buy a car without it, or turn it off. For the vast majority of people, it's a very good thing.
It's getting harder and harder to find one of those with the auto press, safety freaks, and asian manufacturers wanting all this junk made standard. And the last I checked, all of these safety innovations hadn't made a dent in the number of accidents - quite the opposite actually. The more control you take from the driver, the less the driver has to pay attention (in general). To me, that is not a good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D C
btw...how DO they get the deer to cross by those signs?
They bait them... duh!
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Old 02-13-2006, 05:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: Stability control

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-1
BTW, it is your responsibility as an operator of a 3000+ pound hunk of metal (or plastic, as the case may be) to be in control at ALL times - not just when your hunk of metal allows you to be.
But that's completely impossible given the unknown nature of the roads we drive on. Circumstances arise that are beyond the resonable expectations of even the most concientious driver. Othewise, it should be impossible that a properly attentive driver would ever get in an accident, even one that's not their fault.

I don't think there's any argument that the US doesn't have the most highly trained drivers in the world. How many of them are able to properly make an evasive lane change should they need to? And I don't mean just a swerve into another lane because someone pulled out and they might have otherwise hit them. I mean make an evasive lane change where a collision was imminent. And don't just avoid the collision. Avoid the collision, change lanes and stay in that new lane without fishtailing, over-correcting, or doing anything else to lose control.

Which vehicle should those people be driving? The one with stability control or the one without? And don't say that they should be better drivers. Everyone should be a better driver. That's not gonna happen. Stability control is the next best thing to making them capable drivers in an emergency situation.
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Old 02-13-2006, 06:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: Stability control

Please let's get the facts straight.

http://www.safercars.gov/Rollover/pages/NewTechESC.htm

Stability control kicks in when your vehicle nears or exceeds the limits of road traction. Once you lose traction, you no longer have control of the vehicle - it's direction is now controlled by the physics of sliding bodies. You will not regain control until the wheels regain traction. Before that, your vehicle can go off the road, hit other vehicles, or turn sideways and flip.

It wouldn't hurt to spend a few minutes watching this:

http://www.safercars.gov/Rollover/Index.htm
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Old 02-13-2006, 07:28 PM   #18
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Default Re: Stability control

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkl
Please let's get the facts straight.

http://www.safercars.gov/Rollover/pages/NewTechESC.htm

Stability control kicks in when your vehicle nears or exceeds the limits of road traction. Once you lose traction, you no longer have control of the vehicle - it's direction is now controlled by the physics of sliding bodies. You will not regain control until the wheels regain traction. Before that, your vehicle can go off the road, hit other vehicles, or turn sideways and flip.

It wouldn't hurt to spend a few minutes watching this:

http://www.safercars.gov/Rollover/Index.htm
Good links. Exactly the point I've been trying to get across.
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Old 02-14-2006, 09:12 AM   #19
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Default Re: Stability control

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkl
Stability control kicks in when your vehicle nears or exceeds the limits of road traction.
The point I'm trying to make is that one would never be in this situation if one is in control of their vehicle. It doesn't take a Ph.D. in geo-physics to drive a car safely, nor a sixth sense or divine intervention to be aware of your surroundings. All these safety innovations do not negate personal responsibility.
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Old 02-14-2006, 01:55 PM   #20
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Default Re: Stability control

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-1
The point I'm trying to make is that one would never be in this situation if one is in control of their vehicle. It doesn't take a Ph.D. in geo-physics to drive a car safely, nor a sixth sense or divine intervention to be aware of your surroundings. All these safety innovations do not negate personal responsibility.
I totally agree about personal responsibility. ESC should not be treated as a license for irresponsible driving. However, there are many situations where even a responsible driver paying attention can get into serious trouble.

In emergency situations, ESC and ABS will give you a split-second reaction-time advantage, at least partially compensate for any panic errors you may make, and will improve your odds of maintaining directional control during avoidance manoeuvers. That could save your vehicle and more importantly yourself from serious injury.

At least one research effort found models with ESC show about 30% lower fatality rates in accidents compared to the same models without ESC. That, and my personal experience with ABS/Traction control, are good enough for me.
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