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Old 08-01-2018, 09:14 PM   #1
ringfinger6
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Default 2002 SL1 1.9 SOHC repeatedly blows emissions fuse

This all started with the ever popular P0410 secondary air injection system SES code. I went through the Richpin diagnostic video, but don't have the tools to test for current. This probably lead to replacing some items that didn't need it...no need to dwell on that. I know that I had vacuum from all the right places at one point or another, but I'm not sure what point the fuse started blowing.

I've replaced the diverter valve, air injection solenoid, and upstream o2 sensor with new parts.

I cleaned the EGR and stainless pipe from the diverter. I have not removed and cleaned the exhaust manifold, but there is good exhaust flow from the o2 sensor hole when the sensor is removed.

Now that I know the fuse is blowing, I've started testing different components. The fuse blows with the EGR connected or disconnected. The fuse also blows with both the new and the old o2 sensor.

Any ideas where to go next? I'll remove the manifold and clean it if it comes to that, but I'm really doubting that route now that it seems to be an electrical issue. I'm at a loss.

Edit: Just discovered something potentially useful... I can hear the fuse blow the second I turn the key and without starting the car. ACC or Run mode I think it is.

Last edited by ringfinger6; 08-01-2018 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 1.9 SOHC repeatedly blows emissions fuse

get a box of fuses..unplug all the componants at once.key up if fuse pops you got a short to ground.if still good start adding 1 at a time till it pops theres the culperate
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:32 PM   #3
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 1.9 SOHC repeatedly blows emissions fuse

I unplugged the EGR, both o2 sensors, air pump, and air injection solenoid. Fuse popped right away when I turned the key.

Short to ground means the wiring is damaged somewhere along the line I guess, right?
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 1.9 SOHC repeatedly blows emissions fuse

Quote:
Short to ground means the wiring is damaged somewhere along the line I guess, right?
That is what I would say. Should not be shorted to ground.
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 1.9 SOHC repeatedly blows emissions fuse

Well, I'm out of fuses for the night...

I visually checked every length of wiring from those components that I could, connected everything back up, hooked up the battery, and backed the car down off the ramps without blowing my last fuse. I guess we'll see how long that good luck lasts. I'm just about out of hope and faith at this point though

The car was hot when blowing fuses earlier today, and cool tonight by the time I backed it off the ramps. Don't know if that would make a difference.

I couldn't find any bare copper wire, and nothing was obviously crushed. The plastic tubing around the wires was cracking and breaking away in some places, but the wires inside seemed to be intact. There are, however, many connections that are pretty dirty from past oil leaks. Problem is that none of the connections related to this emissions fuse are the dirty ones.
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:49 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 1.9 SOHC repeatedly blows emissions fuse

Examine the wiring diagram. According to wiring, the canister purge solenoid, downstream O2 sensor and egr valve are powered by the 10 amp EMISS fuse.
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File Type: jpg EMISSion fuse.jpg (176.4 KB, 14 views)
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:53 AM   #7
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 1.9 SOHC repeatedly blows emissions fuse

Huh, is that all the runs through it? Had no idea about the purge solenoid. I'll have to test that today.
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Old 08-02-2018, 12:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 1.9 SOHC repeatedly blows emissions fuse

Sometimes, just sometimes we make our own problems.

I randomly watch youtube videos and came across another repair shop with several videos sharing his experiences as a commercial repair shop. One that stood out required two videos where he followed up on a problem that was exacerbated from the original problem, erratic engine running that was (mis)diagnosed as a faulty ecm on a Buick car. Long story short, the car owner decided to listen to the first shop's belief that the ecm needed to be replaced from erratic engine running issues so the owner bought a new ecm and installed it only to have a new problem - no instrument panel lights, no starter, zero, zilch. The ignition switch did nothing. The video shows this second shop displaying zero going on while turning the ignition key. After following one or two paths and given the original ecm (lying on the passenger side floor), this man went to the ecm and...............found the wrong ecm and two of three connector plugs forced into their sockets on the ecm. The wrong ecm, an owner assuming he can simply swap in an engine computer, ignored the keys in most electrical connectors preventing incorrect physical connections. The video shows the car connectors and how they're keyed, the wrong ecm with keys (v-shaped slots) in a different position for two connectors, and the original ecm being reconnected. The engine started up immediately and within seconds this expert diagnosed a clogged catcon. He ended the two part video with him stating he was hired only to determine why the car wouldn't startup and would inform the owner of an incorrect ecm and clogged catcon, leaving it up to the owner to either return the car back to the first shop to continue repairs or allow him to follow thru with what he found to be the original erratic engine running problem - a clogged catcon.

Intrigued by an experienced mechanic, I followed a third video about him cutting out and welding in a new catcon to restore this Buick back to running condition. The first shop misdiagnosed the original problem, the owner listened to the shop (the blind leading the blind) recommending ecm replacement taking it upon himself to replace the ecm (not realizing it was the wrong one) creating a new problem and having the car towed to the second garage. The expertise of one mechanic/technician determine two problems and ending up repairing the car. One shop didn't diagnose the problem, one owner assuming the shop knew what it was doing, and the second shop correcting the two mistakes.
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Old 08-02-2018, 01:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 1.9 SOHC repeatedly blows emissions fuse

I hate to admit that I'm possibly guilty of this. I think I'm sniffing a potential solution and will buy a part on a whim. It sucks, but these SES lights have a way of creating madness. You hear that "ding" after thinking you fixed it and something is just triggered within haha.
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Old 08-02-2018, 03:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 1.9 SOHC repeatedly blows emissions fuse

Got a new box of fuses and disconnected the purge solenoid connector. It might be hard to tell from the picture, but there's a little glossy oil on the very tip of the connector. You can see from my starter that there's a history of oil leaking this area... Could oil getting into that connector cause a ground fault? Can I use mass air flow sensor cleaner on it?

imgur.com/a/U1RT9DL
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:03 PM   #11
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 1.9 SOHC repeatedly blows emissions fuse

Yes, electronic contact cleaner is fine for degreasing purposes on electrical/electronic stuff. Oil is usually non conducting but motor oil mixed with exhaust byproducts and fuel may conduct. I don't know if this is enough to short a 10 amp fuse. They only way to I know is to remove those three things in the circuit, plug in a new fuse and see if the fuse stops blowing. Electrical problems as serious as this requires a step by step process of elimination and observing anything unusual; removing everything connected to the EMISS fuse, new fuse put in, ignition turned on. If the fuse blows, its wiring. If the fuse doesn't blow, turn off ignition and insert one item into the circuit then turn on ignition to see if that part shorts and blows the fuse. Put one part in at a time until the part that blows fuses is found. There's another way and may be cheaper than blowing fuses, wiring a 12v lamp as a substitute for a fuse.

A 12 bulb as fuse only lights up if current flows. The canister purge solenoid and egr valve are not powered up at ignition on time. The heater in the downstream O2 sensor may be powered up but I'm guessing not, until the engine's started. The heater only draws a few amps anyway. If the bulb turns on immediately after turning on ignition (all three parts are removed) a short exists in wiring.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:09 PM   #12
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 1.9 SOHC repeatedly blows emissions fuse

Thank you for your help!

I sprayed both ends of the connection out with the contact cleaner, and gave it a while to dry out. The rubber boot/gasket was soaked in oil/liquid and just fell out when I unplugged it.

I left those 3 components disconnected and tried a new fuse. It didn't blow as each piece was connected(noting of course that some parts might require a hot start), but I've taken the car around town for about 15 miles now with a half dozen starts mixed in and everything looks okay now. Fingers crossed.
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