stability control

[jake 1]

I am thinking about to let a dealer install the stability control system on the astra xe automatic. question can it be done and how much of a problem would it be? thank you in advance for your answers.

[MGGDTW]

Originally Posted by jake 1

I am thinking about to let a dealer install the stability control system on the astra xe automatic. question can it be done and how much of a problem would it be? thank you in advance for your answers.

I think it would not even slightly be worth it.

[onefunkar]

i cant imagine they could even do it. guess i didnt know astra didnt have it. its now law on all cars

[Astra La Vista!]

Cheaper to sell your car and buy an XR. The system is simply too complicated to just "add".

[CadiEldo67]

Hmm for some reason I thought all Astras came with Stabilitrak.

Scratch that, it came on all 3 doors standard.

[tackepj]

Yeah, it's not standard. I don't have it on my XE and I don't miss it.

[Swordfish]

Look for this on astraownersnetwork.co.uk -- they have the list of parts needed, and from what ive read, it can be done without *too much* trouble, but never considered it myself.

[Astra La Vista!]

Originally Posted by tackepj

I don't have it on my XE and I don't miss it.

Until you need it, that is.

ESC will be mandatory on all new cars and light trucks come 2012 -- that's how strongly the US and Canadian governments feel regarding its effectiveness in preventing or reducing accidents. Some insurance companies actually give you a discount if your car has ESC.

[Swordfish]

I sometimes dislike very much ESC. Have any of you ever driven a Dodge Grand Crapavan? in snow storm conditions, traction control and ESC are coming on all the time, at low speeds... it actually handles better and is more efficient to turn ESC off in that weather... so personnaly, I like my human traction control better.

[KillerX]

ESC has saved me a TON of times (Canada winters are sometimes hard) I think its an excellent feature

Brad

[tackepj]

Originally Posted by Astra La Vista!

Until you need it, that is.

ESC will be mandatory on all new cars and light trucks come 2012 -- that's how strongly the US and Canadian governments feel regarding its effectiveness in preventing or reducing accidents. Some insurance companies actually give you a discount if your car has ESC.

True. I've dealt with ESC on larger cars and trucks, and the difference is substantial with all the extra mass. I've had the rear end of the Astra begin to step out a few times in the rain and snow (where I'm sure ESC would have assisted), and that was my clue to slow down. I'm fairly neutral on ESC--I don't have it simply because my car didn't come with it.

Driver aids like this are no doubt beneficial. I just hope that they don't eventually supplant proper driving skills, but I'm afraid that's already happened.

[emg77]

ESC saved my butt one time when it was sunny and nice out and I hit a patch of ice in the shade on a curve of a freeway.

[Astra La Vista!]

Originally Posted by Swordfish

I sometimes dislike very much ESC. Have any of you ever driven a Dodge Grand Crapavan? in snow storm conditions, traction control and ESC are coming on all the time, at low speeds... it actually handles better and is more efficient to turn ESC off in that weather... so personnaly, I like my human traction control better.

That's exactly why cars with TC feature a button to disable it. Driving in snow is one of the few exceptions when a car will perform better with TC turned off. Sadly, I'd say that 99% of drivers driving a vehicle equipped with TC forget about this when the time comes. Thankfully, most cars disable TC when you shift the shifter into the lowest gear, which is what you used to be taught when trying to get your car unstuck in the snow (but how many actually do that? I'm guessing 1%).

Originally Posted by tackepj

Driver aids like this are no doubt beneficial. I just hope that they don't eventually supplant proper driving skills, but I'm afraid that's already happened.

I worked with an old mechanic that really disliked ABS when it first came out because "it was just another excuse for people not to learn how to drive." I countered his argument with this:

"Whether or not YOU have ABS on your car, wouldn't you feel safer on the road where everybody else DOES?"

As for stability control, it's main use is to point the car in the direction of the steering wheel. Unfortunately, most drivers today only stomp on the brakes when something happens in front of them, instead of trying to steer clear. You can chock that up to hand-held phones and the like that leave the driver with only one hand on the steering wheel (which limits steering wheel operation to pretty much 90 degrees either clockwise or counter clockwise, and that's it). If drivers actually tried to avoid accidents, the benefits of ESC would be even more obvious to people.

[Astrageo]

There's a Russian Astra site that's pretty helpful with some of our car's issues, if you can get past the awkward translation. The site includes a page on installing the ESP on an Astra - it seems somewhat complicated, involves a Tech2 reprogram and a new CIM too. Unfortunately I can't post links yet, but the original site is astra-h.ru/esp.html, plug that into Google Translator and see what you think, hope it helps!

[NineLivesGT]

I have Astra XR with TC. You can actually HEAR the TC come on when TC activates. (It's a clunky sort of clicking that is audible coming from behind the dash).

I hear it coming on when there's snow on the ground, clicking on and off and pushing the front of the car in one direction and another when the LAST thing I want is that to happen when trying to negotiate a corner on slippery roads. I almost drove right through my neighbor's fence going around the corner in snow because the TC couldn't decide which way the car should be going.

Do yourself a favor and forget the idea of adding TC to your car. It is just another supposed high-tech gimmick that dealers hype up to sell cars.

When the weather is bad, I now just turn OFF the TC, because TC has too hard of a time figuring out which way the car should be going. You don't need that in a slippery turn. It takes OVER control of the car WAY too much, and things get scary real fast when it comes on. The DRIVER should decide which direction the car needs to go in. And he doesn't need R2D2 and C3PO under the dash switching things around when you least expect it. A good set of snow tires and some driving experience is worth a lot more, and is a lot safer than a "guess-ti-mate" by a robot on which way your car should be going.

OK I'm off the soap-box now.

[Astra La Vista!]

Originally Posted by NineLivesGT

I have Astra XR with TC. You can actually HEAR the TC come on when TC activates. (It's a clunky sort of clicking that is audible coming from behind the dash).

I hear it coming on when there's snow on the ground, clicking on and off and pushing the front of the car in one direction and another when the LAST thing I want is that to happen when trying to negotiate a corner on slippery roads. I almost drove right through my neighbor's fence going around the corner in snow because the TC couldn't decide which way the car should be going.

Do yourself a favor and forget the idea of adding TC to your car. It is just another supposed high-tech gimmick that dealers hype up to sell cars.

When the weather is bad, I now just turn OFF the TC, because TC has too hard of a time figuring out which way the car should be going. You don't need that in a slippery turn. It takes OVER control of the car WAY too much, and things get scary real fast when it comes on. The DRIVER should decide which direction the car needs to go in. And he doesn't need R2D2 and C3PO under the dash switching things around when you least expect it. A good set of snow tires and some driving experience is worth a lot more, and is a lot safer than a "guess-ti-mate" by a robot on which way your car should be going.

Not sure what your beef is with ESC... but you are flat out wrong on so many points (eg: TC ≠ ESC; there is no "guess-ti-mating" being done; ESC doesn't "take over control of your car"; etc.).

ESC works so well that it will now be mandatory on 100% of all new cars sold in North America for the coming fall model year. Numerous world-wide studies have proven that ESC is one of the biggest improvements in vehicle safety since the airbag. Mercedes was so concerned with their reputation as a safe car manufacturer back in 1997 that they recalled 130,000 vehicles to retrofit them with ESC -- free of charge. It is not just another supposed high-tech gimmick that dealers hype up to sell cars.

[everyshadeofblu]

I'm sure people argued against seat belts when they first came out!

[NineLivesGT]

It IS just a gimmick to sell cars.

All you need is a good set of snow tires and experience behind the wheel in snow.

And, yes, ESC does take control in the IT decides which wheels get power or apply brake force. That is why I came 2 inches from driving right through my neighbors fence going around the corner in snow/icy conditions. The ESC decided to click on and "keep the vehicle moving in a certain direction", which is what ESC does. Unfortunately, it was NOT the direction I wished to go. Nor did my neighbor.

And as far as seat belts go, my brother owes his LIFE to not having his seat belt on when he rolled his vehicle 4 times and ended up with the roof smashed flat against a huge tree. The policeman and the EMT told him that the only thing that saved him was the fact that he was not forceably held upright in the seat by the safety belt. He was able to lie flat across the front seats when the roof was crushed by the tree. He escaped with a small scratch on his ear, and I still have a brother.

I'm sure someone will site 1000 different official studies which state "in most cases, seatbelts save lives", and I agree they do.

I just don't like the fact that GOVERNMENT is mandating that I have NO CHOICE any longer whether I wish to put the seat belt on, or whether I want a robot taking it's best guess as to where I want my car to go in a turn on a snowy road.

The government would have effectively MANDATED that my brother would now be dead... is what I am saying.

George Orwell.

[NineLivesGT]

And just to add one more point- when I turn off the so-called "StabiliTrak" button in snowy conditions before I go around that corner on my street, I, the driver of the car, have control 100%, and based on driving experience and good snow tires, I know what the car will do.

I no longer have to worry about a robot deciding my car is "becoming unstable" and sending it up on the sidewalk and into my neighbor's fence. Thank God his kids were not walking there to the bus stop that morning, or they would be "Stabili-Dead". That is the bottom line here.

[NineLivesGT]

Lastly, in my original post I mentioned StabiliTrak takes way too much directional control over the car, which apparently you infer is among my points that are "dead wrong", as you put it.

Wel,l below I have actually copied and pasted, directly from the Saturn Astra's operating manual, the paragraph regarding this point. By very definition, as stated in the manual published by GM that came with the car, StabiliTrak does take directional control to a degree. In my estimate, I am saying it takes WAY too much.

Here is the paragraph from the Astra's manual: "StabiliTrak is an advanced computer controlled vehicle stability and traction enhancement system that assists with directional control of the vehicle in difficult driving conditions by reducing engine power and applying the brakes to individual wheels.