Wheel Bearing vs. CV Joint vs. ????

[nivlem7]

I'm getting this roaring noise that starts at about 30 mph and gets louder as I go faster. Sounds like I've got mud bogger tires on. I am fairly certain it's coming from the left front wheel. I tried holding the tire at 3 and 9 o'clock and wiggling, as well as 12 and 6, but there seems to be no extra play on either side. This makes me think it's not the wheel bearing. The noise lessens if I'm going through a slight curve to the right, say 30 degrees off my forward path, so I think that rules out the tire rubbing. Also, and I'm not sure if this is related because it's intermittent, sometimes when accelerating, the car stumbles, but not the engine. It's almost like a slow shudder or throbbing. That makes me think CV joint.

I've read about jacking up a vehicle and running it with the wheels spinning in the air to locate noises, but I'm not really sure that I want to be poking my head around a wheel that's going 25-30 mph.

I read the "Changing a Front Hub/Bearing on an S-Series" post (thanks, Twin_Cam!) I think I could do this myself, I have a hydraulic press. I want to make sure that's what it is, before I do it though.

I took LF wheel off to see what I could see, and could not get the rotor off. Is it possible to just take out the 30 mm wheel bolt?


Any suggestions? Ideas?

[England]

sounds like a wheel bearing not many problems with cv unless it is torn or cut. if the noise changes as you turn one way or another than it is more than likely a bearing. The rotors just slide off. if you are having a problem with the rotor i woul probably leave the bearing up to some one who has done one, also considering the bearing alone is about 40-60 dollar. if you reck one and have to get another you may as well pay to have it done.

[tech2]

The bearings are pressed in, take it to someone who knows what there doing.

[billbear]

I have a 2005 Saturn VUE V6 AWD and had the same problem, it was a wheelbearing (and if I remember correctly it happend around 25,000km). All under warranty but I was not happy about it. I never noticed much pulling but your first attach should be taking it to the dealer for a test drive and let them hear it.

Hopefully your still under warranty, I think it would have ran around $200+ CDN to fix otherwise.

Good Luck,
Bill

[badger96]

Sounds like a wheel bearing. I just replaced mine on my '96 SL2 (120,000 miles). It was doing the same thing. Makes noise as you go faster, goes away if you turn the wheel. My advice, unless you know what you are doing, have a professional change them. They are not cheap. Also, replace both sides now, don't do one and then wait for the other to go. Also they have to pull rotors and calibers to do the job. I had them replace all that stuff while they were up there. I'm good for another 100k, I figure.

Good luck.

[johnny95sl2]

Replaced mine at 120k miles, I couldn't feel any play in them but they were definatly roaring. Pulled the hubs myself and brought them to NAPA paid 60.00 to have both of the bearings replaced.

[nivlem7]

Originally Posted by johnny95sl2

Replaced mine at 120k miles, I couldn't feel any play in them but they were definatly roaring. Pulled the hubs myself and brought them to NAPA paid 60.00 to have both of the bearings replaced.

So you didn't replace the hubs, just the bearings? Also, that was 60 for both (30 apiece, I guess), not each? Definitely have to look into that.

NAPA's website has Item#: PGBPFW168 for 27.99 each. And they'll put them in for me?

thanks for the info

[denisond3]

nivlem7:
I agree it sounds like a wheel bearing going bad. You wont feel any 'play', unless the bearing gets very bad. And by that time the brakes on that wheel would be wearing out quickly due to the 'play' of the hub to rotor misalignment. A seriously bad bearing can sieze, and ruin the steering knuckle.
My personal experience as a hobbyist is that one bad wheel bearing doesnt imply the other one needs replaced - if its not making noise yet. They are usually very durable, but can go bad from a serious pothole, or sliding sideways into a curb on an icy street, or after driving in really deep water.
The rotors "just come off" - but you might have to hit them a few times from the back side with a good sized hammer. Put a flat piece of aluminum against the rotor, so your hammer wont create a 'dimple' on the rotor. You may need to strike it a few times farily hard, and turn the rotor in between strikes.
The advice about taking it to someone who knows what they are doing I would disagree with; unless your car is new enough for this to be covered under warranty. How will you ever 'know what you are doing' if you always take it to a service facility that wont let you watch in their shop 'for insurance reasons'. But it will be a good bit of work. I have several fwd mopar cars from the 80s, so have changed plenty of bad wheel bearings; all of which have to be pressed out.
If you are going to do it, I would still advise you having a service manual, although the instructions given in the posting you cited are excellent. There are about 8 manuals for a Saturn published by Saturn. In the owners manual is an 800 number to call and ask what pubs you might want. You could order it from them, or you might find the one you need on ebay.com, after learning its name from the folks at the 800 number. The owners manual for a 93 had the titles of the manuals listed in a table.
If you get the hub assembly (hub/bearing/steering knuckle) off and dont want to urge the bearing out yourself, you can get a new bearing and take it to a machine shop. They should be able to do it while you wait. I have -pressed- mine out and the new bearings back in numerous times, using a sledge hammer and sturdy supports. My supports are two 2 ft long chunks of I-beam, about 12 inches high by 8 inches of width, and various -collars-, which are actually parts of old ball bearings that I have collected, and some large 3/4" drive sockets, like 1-7/8ths to 2-7/8ths. When you drive out the old bearing you will ruin it in the process, even if it had been good. When pressing the new bearing in I was careful to have a 'collar' that nearly matched the outside diameter of the bearing, so I would not ruin the new one. I also chill the bearing and heat the knuckle assembly, to make it easier to force the bearing in. Then I chill the hub before pushing (hammering gently with the sledge) it back into the now toasty warm bearing.
Getting the knuckle correctly re-bolted to the strut assembly is important for wheel alignment. The marks he showed in the pictures didnt seem that good to me. I would wire brush the strut/knuckle connection, and put match-marks in more than one location - on the side, and on the end where the adjustable bolt is.
The first time I changed a wheel bearing on a front wheel drive car, it took me about 8 hours spread over two days. (My lower back didnt like the work!) After doing it several times, it takes me about 3 hours. Being retired, I dont hurry.
Though not a mechanic by profession, I do all of my own work on my vehicles, including engine and transmission rebuilds and always have. I admit when I was starting out, I had to do some jobs over and over to finally get the car running again. Since I (or my parents before I had a drivers license) always had a second car to use, I never gave up just because I didnt know what I was doing. I have some pre-WW-II cars, and there isnt any easy place to take them to get things fixed, even if I could afford the cost.
A couple of times I replaced the axle shaft assembly when I had the steering knuckle apart, because the car had high mileage, or the CV joints had been making clicking noises on turns for a few months.
If you decide to have it fixed by a service facility, I would be glad to learn what that costs. Good Luck

[johnny95sl2]

The press job for both hubs was 60.00 the bearings ran around 35.00 ea

[AJT_Leo]

Can we just buy a new hub/bearing assembly, all together, and replace with no need to remove the bearing and repack? It is more expensive this way, but easier, I would think.

[MikeH]

Originally Posted by AJT_Leo

Can we just buy a new hub/bearing assembly, all together, and replace with no need to remove the bearing and repack? It is more expensive this way, but easier, I would think.

No. The bearing is also pressed into the steering knuckle. The hub only need be replaced if the hub is damaged.

If budget is a problem, a knuckle with a bearing can be purchased at a salvage yard. But there is no way to know how long the bearing will last. Could be week or less or many years.

[cjhsa]

Seems to be a common problem with Saturn vehicles. I had two go out within the last year (first year on the road). I like the Vue, and the price, but it seems like they may have cut a lot of corners to get the price point they wanted.

Right now my front tranny slips a bit, the rear AWD whatever it is clanks and rattles when you slow down, the brakes pull to one side, we just replaced two window regulators (and a third needs replacement...), the front seats squeak and groan... what next....

[srapp]

i had the "self welding" rotors too. Since it was also alignment time i took off both knuckles, placed the rotor on two blocks of wood with a socket on the spindle and beat to death with a maul. they came apart

[nivlem7]

Originally Posted by denisond3

nivlem7:
The advice about taking it to someone who knows what they are doing I would disagree with; unless your car is new enough for this to be covered under warranty. How will you ever 'know what you are doing' if you always take it to a service facility that wont let you watch in their shop 'for insurance reasons'. But it will be a good bit of work. I have several fwd
mopar cars from the 80s, so have changed plenty of bad wheel bearings; all of which have to be pressed out.
If you are going to do it, I would still advise you having a service manual, although the instructions given in the posting you cited are excellent.

Thanks, I agree about learning how to do something new. I think if I take my time, and think it through (partly why I'm on this forum, thanks for the info from everyone that answered), I should be ok. I live on a farm and we pretty much repair just about everything ourselves. I too, have seen some things need to be done twice, but I guess you learn from your mistakes as well as those of others.
Some quotes I like:

"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."

also,

"Experience is what you get just after you really could have used it."

I plan to go to NAPA tomorrow, get the bearing, and shoot for putting it in this weekend. I'll ask them how much it would cost for them to do it, if they can.

I do have a Haynes (and chilton's, which I like less) manual for this car, which seems to be a pretty good source of info.

BTW, it's an 01 SL1, not sure I made mention of that before.

thanks to all who answered, and any more ideas or input would be appreciated, even it's to disagree with me.

[BarnOwl]

Originally Posted by nivlem7

BTW, it's an 01 SL1, not sure I made mention of that before.

Since you're new, two things: Replace your ECTS, if you haven't already done it. If your car ever develops a miss that you can't identify, spray some carb or brake cleaner around the intake manifold gasket new cylinder 1. Those 3rd gen SOHCs are notorious for getting manifold gasket leaks there.

Good luck with that bearing. Let us know how it turns out.

[froggy81500]

Sounds like a wheel bearing that is out of lube and is just starting to go and hasn't developed any play yet. CV's just like U-joints usually make a clunk when shifting gears or when changing directions. A constant noise under continuous driving is not typical of a CV but is typical of a bearing.

[nivlem7]

Originally Posted by BarnOwl

Since you're new, two things: Replace your ECTS, if you haven't already done it. If your car ever develops a miss that you can't identify, spray some carb or brake cleaner around the intake manifold gasket new cylinder 1. Those 3rd gen SOHCs are notorious for getting manifold gasket leaks there.

Good luck with that bearing. Let us know how it turns out.

Thanks for the advice. I planned on doing the ECTS this weekend as well. (I've been scouring these forums for info )

Also, just had the IMG replaced about two weeks ago, after using the carb cleaner trick, I believe I also found that info here. Trouble code of cylinder 1 misfire.

This forum is a wealth of information. Next oil change, I hope to do a MMO piston soak, though oil burning hasn't been too much of an issue. Do you think it's a good preventive though?

Thanks for taking the time to make those suggestions, also.

[nivlem7]

Originally Posted by denisond3

nivlem7:
If you decide to have it fixed by a service facility, I would be glad to learn what that costs.

Got the bearing today at NAPA, they said that they used to do that, but don't anymore. I put the bearing in the freezer, hoping it'll go into the wheel easier.

[nivlem7]

Update:

Got the tie rod end puller from AutoZone yesterday. Realized I needed a bearing separator as well, so I went back today. The guy was like, "You can just press them out", after he realized they didn't have separators. Looks like a trip to Harbor Freight tomorrow. Also, I found an old post by tacoguy about this exact thing w/a link to another forum that was dead. I contacted him and got his photos and put them here if anyone is interested:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10884202@N03/

thanks, tacoguy!

I'd like to put them on here, but I don't know how to. If anyone else wants to, feel free. I think they'd last a lot longer if the were on here anyway.

I think after I get the separator, I'll be set to do this on Saturday. I'll post later how it goes.

[Greg1]

The ball joint will need to be separated too to remove the hub. I've done it by applying downward pressure with a large prybar and then whacking the knuckle with a BFH.