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Old 09-26-2007, 05:50 PM   #1
Xboxer
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2004 VUE Red Line
Default Survey: Does YOUR RL have rear camber?

Ok, sorry I've posted a similar topic a while ago. However, I didn't get much response.

I am having a bad time with my tires (rear) being shredded over a short time period. In fact my case is with Saturn Corporate now.

However, while I wait, my tires are at the mercy of potentially wrong camber (which service claims is "probably" normal).

My questions to you RL owners:

1) Do you have really noticeable rear camber? ie) does it look like your rear end is overloaded and the wheels are bent out?(Mine are evn when aligned, and under no load - appears to be a few degrees.)

2) Do you have very straight camber? (Or mostly vertical)

3) Is their a correlation between the recall from a few years ago - if you got it at all( the suspension adjustment to avoid rollover) and your present camber?

Thanks for humoring me on this. Its been really stressful on us with the cost of these tires, and the whole rear alignment fiasco we went through.

PS: Perhaps I could post pics from the rear end so you can see for yourselves...?

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Old 09-26-2007, 09:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Survey: Does YOUR RL have rear camber?

Measured camber is about -0.7deg per side. There should be no problems with adjustment before or after the recall.

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Old 09-27-2007, 08:56 AM   #3
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2004 VUE Red Line
Default Re: Survey: Does YOUR RL have rear camber?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xboxer View Post
Ok, sorry I've posted a similar topic a while ago. However, I didn't get much response.

I am having a bad time with my tires (rear) being shredded over a short time period. In fact my case is with Saturn Corporate now.

However, while I wait, my tires are at the mercy of potentially wrong camber (which service claims is "probably" normal).

My questions to you RL owners:

1) Do you have really noticeable rear camber? ie) does it look like your rear end is overloaded and the wheels are bent out?(Mine are evn when aligned, and under no load - appears to be a few degrees.)

2) Do you have very straight camber? (Or mostly vertical)

3) Is their a correlation between the recall from a few years ago - if you got it at all( the suspension adjustment to avoid rollover) and your present camber?

Thanks for humoring me on this. Its been really stressful on us with the cost of these tires, and the whole rear alignment fiasco we went through.

PS: Perhaps I could post pics from the rear end so you can see for yourselves...?

There are MUCH cheaper alternative sized tires out there for you to use on the stock Redline rims. View the alternative tire size thread or PM me for details.

Yes, my RL has rear camber. I have not noticed any unusual tire wear from it.

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Old 09-27-2007, 12:41 PM   #4
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2005 VUE Red Line
Default Re: Survey: Does YOUR RL have rear camber?

Camber should have little to no impact on wear assuming toe is 0, which it should be on a Vue. I ran 2+ degrees of negative camber on all four corners in my WRX for over a year and had no real wear problems because my toe was always 0. Toe is going to be the more important number to look at if you're shredding tires.

Negative camber in the rear is very common on most modern cars as it leads to a tendency to understeer. The automakers view understeer as safer for the average driver than oversteer.

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Old 09-27-2007, 01:28 PM   #5
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2004 VUE Red Line
Default Re: Survey: Does YOUR RL have rear camber?

This is info I was given from the Acura Alignment shop after getting the last alignment: (why it said 4x2 is beyond me)

FOR A : Saturn 04 VUE 4x2 Red Line

REAR LEFT RIGHT
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Camber -0.80 -1.33
Cross Camber 0.53
TOE -0.06 -1.18
TOTAL TOE -1.24
THRUST ANGLE 0.56


So what is TOE? The bolded text above was shown on the printout.

Do these numbers tell you why the rear tires were shredded?

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Old 09-27-2007, 02:00 PM   #6
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Default Re: Survey: Does YOUR RL have rear camber?

As the camber gets more negative in our cars, the toe starts to stray from 0. Its just the way our suspension is set up.

My rear tires are shredded as of right now. I am running sprint springs that I cut with a cutoff wheel to make my car low as hell. /ghettomod

Whenever I hit a bump, I can actually feel the rear of the car scoot to one side because the rear tires toe in/out as the suspension compresses.

Needless to say, I bought some new lowering springs because these cut sprints just aren't "cutting" it.



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Old 09-27-2007, 04:18 PM   #7
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2004 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Survey: Does YOUR RL have rear camber?

Camber isn't your problem. The -1.18" of toe is what is eating up your tires. That's A LOT of toe. I've seen racecars set up on the loose side with less toe than that.

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Old 09-27-2007, 08:01 PM   #8
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2004 VUE Red Line
Default Re: Survey: Does YOUR RL have rear camber?

Does the negative toe mean the "forward part" of the rear tires are pointing out?

My rear tire wear was excessive on the inside tread - indicative of which type of toe?

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Old 09-27-2007, 09:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: Survey: Does YOUR RL have rear camber?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xboxer View Post
This is info I was given from the Acura Alignment shop after getting the last alignment: (why it said 4x2 is beyond me)

FOR A : Saturn 04 VUE 4x2 Red Line

REAR LEFT RIGHT
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Camber -0.80 -1.33
Cross Camber 0.53
TOE -0.06 -1.18
TOTAL TOE -1.24
THRUST ANGLE 0.56


So what is TOE? The bolded text above was shown on the printout.

Do these numbers tell you why the rear tires were shredded?
Yes, they do. Your camber is, for the most part, fine. -.8 and -1.3 isn't a drastic difference and neither is too huge.

Toe. Now we've got something. Normally, the toe should be at about 0.08 deg toe in per side. Your left side looks a little out, but the right side is INCREDIBLY out of whack. I mean big time out. Not even remotely close to being out in left field. 1.18 deg of toe is a ton. What that gives you is a total of over 1.2 degrees of toe out instead of under 0.2 deg toe IN where it should be. Your tires are basically being dragged sideways as you drive along.

To put it in perspective, your rear tires are thinking you're cornering at a fairly decent level when you're driving straight. Think like a freeway off-ramp taken at a moderate pace. ALL THE TIME!

My guess is that your right toe link slipped at some point in time. That would also explain why your right camber is higher. Adjusting the toe link also affects camber, toe out means more negative camber, which is what you have.

Time for a full alignment and you'll be fine.

Last edited by D C; 09-27-2007 at 09:19 PM..

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Old 09-28-2007, 12:16 AM   #10
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2004 VUE Red Line
Default Re: Survey: Does YOUR RL have rear camber?

Quote:
My questions to you RL owners:

1) Do you have really noticeable rear camber? ie) does it look like your rear end is overloaded and the wheels are bent out?(Mine are evn when aligned, and under no load - appears to be a few degrees.)

2) Do you have very straight camber? (Or mostly vertical)

3) Is their a correlation between the recall from a few years ago - if you got it at all( the suspension adjustment to avoid rollover) and your present camber?
We've had our RL since Jan. '04 and I've never noticed the camber issue until just about a month ago. I had no Idea if I was seeing things, or if something was wrong. Then I thought maybe it was because I've been storing
about 200#'s of stuff in back for the past 4 months while my house is for sale.

I did have the recall for the rear suspension performed, but still never noticed the tire angle. It does seem very obvious now. I used to see a lot of older BMW's like that and thought it looked pretty stupid.

My question is, By looking at the rear tires, how can I tell if the TOE is right or not? The Camber is obvious now, but what do I look for to see if the TOE is incorrect? (The tires are great, 30K on them, and perfect wear across all tires).


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'07 VUE AWD V6

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Old 09-09-2019, 11:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: Survey: Does YOUR RL have rear camber?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Lime4U View Post
We've had our RL since Jan. '04 and I've never noticed the camber issue until just about a month ago. I had no Idea if I was seeing things, or if something was wrong. Then I thought maybe it was because I've been storing
about 200#'s of stuff in back for the past 4 months while my house is for sale.

I did have the recall for the rear suspension performed, but still never noticed the tire angle. It does seem very obvious now. I used to see a lot of older BMW's like that and thought it looked pretty stupid.

My question is, By looking at the rear tires, how can I tell if the TOE is right or not? The Camber is obvious now, but what do I look for to see if the TOE is incorrect? (The tires are great, 30K on them, and perfect wear across all tires).

my 2007 Saturn Vue redline the top of the tire is just over an inch in further than the bottom do not know what the angle is is that amount adjustable?

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