SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-16-2018, 02:25 PM   #21
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 64,748
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_b View Post
I saw some people doing 64bit installs but I have this old laptop and I have some work for it right away. I want to get up and running fast like you did.

My sonís 96 is still throwing a P0302 Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected. But there is no miss.
I have seen where people on here have done a crank angle sensor relearn and fixed this on a 96.
Not sure if that will fix it but I want to give it a shot.
Crank relearn usually fixes it or reprogram to the latest firmware as there is a misfire detection sensitivity error in the early 96 firmware.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 05-16-2018, 03:29 PM   #22
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 3,947
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Crank relearn usually fixes it or reprogram to the latest firmware as there is a misfire detection sensitivity error in the early 96 firmware.
What actually causes it to need to relearn? I've removed the timing chain on my 96 and belt on my 2006 and never did the relearn but never had issues. When I re-time the chain shouldn't it be the same as before I previously shut the car off? How does it know the timing chain was off?

-Robert

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to RobertGary1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help RobertGary1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
RobertGary1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 03:40 PM   #23
Mark_b
Member
Mark_b is a jewel in the roughMark_b is a jewel in the roughMark_b is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SC
Posts: 313

1996 SC2
1999 SC2
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

It does not know the timing chain was off.
I replaced the crank angle sensor.
A new crank shaft or a new motor could cause the need for a relearn.
Sometimes you can replace CAS and not do a relearn but our 96 is throwing a code for no reason.
Time to try a relearn.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Mark_b's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Mark_b reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Mark_b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 03:20 PM   #24
craftsman70
Junior Member
craftsman70 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 40
 

2000 SL1
1998 SL1
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_b View Post
You only have to buy subscription to program modules.
They now have a $40 for one car for 2 years. (This lets you program modules for one VIN)
https://www.acdelcotds.com/acdelco/action/subscribehome


I'd add that you don't have to buy the subscription to program new modules. CDROMs with all of the GM modules can be found easily on the internet. I use a tech2 clone and a CD to program a new BCM last year.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to craftsman70's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help craftsman70 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
craftsman70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 03:32 PM   #25
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 64,748
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Most of the recent firmware has escaped to the internet. Before paying off GM/FORD etc. it is worth a good internet search.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 03:52 PM   #26
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 64,748
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_b View Post
It does not know the timing chain was off.
I replaced the crank angle sensor.
A new crank shaft or a new motor could cause the need for a relearn.
Sometimes you can replace CAS and not do a relearn but our 96 is throwing a code for no reason.
Time to try a relearn.
The reason for a relearn when the crankshaft or the CKP(crankshaft position sensor) is manufacturing tolerances in making the pickup and/or the crankshaft notches. The misfire detection is comparing the time of the last notch to the next one and when it detects s decrease in angular velocity greater than threshold it counts as a misfire. Small changes require several repetitive occurrences in a given time period and large ones are an immediate code.
The 96 was originally set to a very tight tolerance later relaxed in firmware updates.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2018, 12:19 AM   #27
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 3,947
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Thinking about getting the vxdiag pro. Twice the price but does GM and Ford as I understand it.

-Robert

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to RobertGary1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help RobertGary1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
RobertGary1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2018, 08:08 AM   #28
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 64,748
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

If you have late model multiple make vehicles that makes a lot of sense dollar wise.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2018, 09:12 PM   #29
rk80
Junior Member
rk80 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 30
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeebins View Post
About a week ago I added a cruise to my car but I needed the computer to be programed so it would actually work. I went to one chevy dealer that claimed they could do it but ended up not being able to. I then called 5 others in the area and none of them where able to (or wanted to) turn on cruise either.

I saw that Kaervak recently bought a Tech2 clone that looked liked it fully worked as a real Tech2. $300 is a little steep of a price to pay though for something I may only ever use for turning on cruise control. I did some searching around for some cheaper alternatives and I came across this on the Corvette forms, A Tech2Win adapter. It's essentially the software of a tech 2 running on a windows computer and connects to the car through either a USB or wi-fi adapter. It was $120 on amazon, a lot cheaper than a full hardware Tech2 clone and the dealers I was calling where somewhere around $120 for a minimum shop time charge, so it seemed worth trying out.

It was delivered earlier today and in the box was the OBD2 adapter, a micro usb cable, and a CD of software. The software it came with included, GM MDI Manager, VX Manager, Tech2Win, and VMPlayer. I installed all of them except for VMPlayer as it's only needed if you'll be running the other software from inside a virtual machine.

Once the software/drivers where finished installing, The Tech2Win software was able to recognize the adapter and connect to the car. After going though some menus I got to the option programing and was able to turn on cruise control. Went out for a test drive and I can confirm that cruise control now works.

This this is a pretty cool device and probably the most advanced scan tool i'll ever own. As far as I can tell, anything that a real Tech2 can do, this thing can also do. If anyone has any questions about the Tech2Win feel free to ask me

I've taken some photos and posted them to an imgur album as well as to an album on this site incase anything ever happens to imgur.

link to imgur album - https://imgur.com/a/mpaJxgn
Will this communicate with a 2002 VUE?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to rk80's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help rk80 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
rk80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2018, 10:51 PM   #30
Zeebins
Member
Zeebins is a jewel in the roughZeebins is a jewel in the roughZeebins is a jewel in the rough
 
Zeebins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 314
 

1997 SL2
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Yes, it will. It should work with all GM cars made between 1991 and 2013. Although, it used an OBD2 connector to communicate with the vehicle so it's probably more like any 1996-2013 car.

...
You'll never catch me, not when I shift into, performance mode!
1997 SL2, 108K miles

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Zeebins's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Zeebins reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Zeebins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2018, 10:55 PM   #31
Mark_b
Member
Mark_b is a jewel in the roughMark_b is a jewel in the roughMark_b is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SC
Posts: 313

1996 SC2
1999 SC2
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

It will work with GM cars 2013-2018 you have to use the GDS2 software that is included.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Mark_b's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Mark_b reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Mark_b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2018, 11:26 PM   #32
Zeebins
Member
Zeebins is a jewel in the roughZeebins is a jewel in the roughZeebins is a jewel in the rough
 
Zeebins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 314
 

1997 SL2
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_b View Post
It will work with GM cars 2013-2018 you have to use the GDS2 software that is included.
Is the GDS2 software it's own program? I don't remember seeing that on my CD

...
You'll never catch me, not when I shift into, performance mode!
1997 SL2, 108K miles

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Zeebins's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Zeebins reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Zeebins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2018, 07:13 AM   #33
Mark_b
Member
Mark_b is a jewel in the roughMark_b is a jewel in the roughMark_b is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SC
Posts: 313

1996 SC2
1999 SC2
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

You have to install VMware on 64bit machine. Then extract the compressed image free winzip7 can extract it. Then run VMware open new VM point it to the extracted image. There are some YouTube videos showing how to do it but they don't show you have to extract the image.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Mark_b's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Mark_b reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Mark_b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2018, 09:56 AM   #34
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 3,947
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Mine seems to be working. Only issues Iíve had are.
1) the mdi program wonít run; just gives an error. But I donít know why Iíd need to run it.
2) the connector is physically too fat for the Vue. The trim prevents it from plugging all the way in. You could remove the trim around the plug or I just ordered an odb2 extension cord on amazon.
3) I had a lot of problems installing software originally because i downloaded it from the links they sent. Ignore those. Mine came with a usb stick that has all the software and it works. I have the pro. I think the non-pro comes with a cd

Iíve got both tech2 running and Ford ids. I donít think there is anyway to test the gm programming ability without buying a subscription first from acdelo to download the software. I assume when you download you select feature (cruise, transmission etc) and that is how you change configuration in the module.

-Robert

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to RobertGary1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help RobertGary1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
RobertGary1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2018, 05:24 PM   #35
rk80
Junior Member
rk80 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 30
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeebins View Post
Yes, it will. It should work with all GM cars made between 1991 and 2013. Although, it used an OBD2 connector to communicate with the vehicle so it's probably more like any 1996-2013 car.
I have Bowser Electronics which is now out of business, and then later I bought Autoenginuity. I like Autoenginuity but it it connects poorly to a 2002 VUE. I'm told the communication porotocol is ISO / KWP which Autoenginuity has issues with. I have the GM enhanced package. So I'm looking for something for the VUE.

Can this software provide live sensor data and do actuation of solenoids etc.. Basically command stuff? for diagnosis.

Kind of looking for the same functionality as Autoenginuity only on a VUE.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to rk80's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help rk80 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
rk80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 10:36 AM   #36
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 3,947
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rk80 View Post
I have Bowser Electronics which is now out of business, and then later I bought Autoenginuity. I like Autoenginuity but it it connects poorly to a 2002 VUE. I'm told the communication porotocol is ISO / KWP which Autoenginuity has issues with. I have the GM enhanced package. So I'm looking for something for the VUE.

Can this software provide live sensor data and do actuation of solenoids etc.. Basically command stuff? for diagnosis.

Kind of looking for the same functionality as Autoenginuity only on a VUE.
Funny, I also bought Bowsers and then Autoenginuity. This software is far more powerful than Autoenginuity. Yes, you can see live data, actuate solenoids, program fobs, reflash the PCM (need to subscribe to A/C Delco for the firmware download but its not too expensive).

Autoenginuity is somewhat buggy. I worked closely with their developer getting the Vue software working. They purchased a data dictionary from GM but its not always clear what a parameter is without a car to test it on. What got me looking around again was I could no longer patch my Autoenginuity software without an expensive update to their hardware.


-Robert

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to RobertGary1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help RobertGary1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
RobertGary1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 12:29 PM   #37
rk80
Junior Member
rk80 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 30
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertGary1 View Post
Funny, I also bought Bowsers and then Autoenginuity. This software is far more powerful than Autoenginuity. Yes, you can see live data, actuate solenoids, program fobs, reflash the PCM (need to subscribe to A/C Delco for the firmware download but its not too expensive).

Autoenginuity is somewhat buggy. I worked closely with their developer getting the Vue software working. They purchased a data dictionary from GM but its not always clear what a parameter is without a car to test it on. What got me looking around again was I could no longer patch my Autoenginuity software without an expensive update to their hardware.


-Robert
So do you have to buy the firmware to make it functional? Or just to do re flashing / programming? If I did require a firmware update, what kind of money are we talking about?

Is the item in this thread shown on Amazon what you have.

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to determine if I buy this or not. I'm assuming it will work on any GM, would that be correct?

I have the latest Autoenginuity hardware and software. Just got my last free update a month ago. Works good on my 2006 Silverado, 98 Saturn SW2, 2001 SL2, my daughters 2008 VUE. Just works bad on the 2002 VUE

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to rk80's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help rk80 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
rk80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 02:01 PM   #38
Mark_b
Member
Mark_b is a jewel in the roughMark_b is a jewel in the roughMark_b is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SC
Posts: 313

1996 SC2
1999 SC2
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

No you donít have to but firmware to make it work. I updated the firmware on the tool as soon as ii started to use it there was no charge.

If you donít need to program modules you donít need a GM subscription.

If you just need GM diagnostic
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Mark_b's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Mark_b reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Mark_b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 02:10 PM   #39
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 3,947
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rk80 View Post
So do you have to buy the firmware to make it functional? Or just to do re flashing / programming? If I did require a firmware update, what kind of money are we talking about?

Is the item in this thread shown on Amazon what you have.

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to determine if I buy this or not. I'm assuming it will work on any GM, would that be correct?

I have the latest Autoenginuity hardware and software. Just got my last free update a month ago. Works good on my 2006 Silverado, 98 Saturn SW2, 2001 SL2, my daughters 2008 VUE. Just works bad on the 2002 VUE
So far I've not found anything not working. What you are really buying is a MDI interface device. The software you are running in ACDelco's Tech2Win, the same software most of the dealerships are using for pre 2015 cars. You also get the GDI software for newer cars. So you're getting what the dealer gets.
Just like the dealer if you want to program a module you need an ACDelco subscription. However they now have a VIN specific subscription. $40 for two years for unlimited downloads. So if you need to reprogram a BCM its $40. I've heard there are cracks for that as well but I've not seen them.

Best part of this over autoenginuity is the ability to program key fobs. Key fobs do not require a subscription.

I bought the pro version that includes multiple manufacture so I also have the Ford IDS software.

-Robert

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to RobertGary1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help RobertGary1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
RobertGary1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 03:25 PM   #40
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 3,947
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Took a gamble, bought a tech2 clone (Tech2Win)

Btw if you buy his mdi clone for your Vue youíll need an odb2 extension. The device is too fat to get around the trim and plug directly into th car.

-Robert

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to RobertGary1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help RobertGary1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
RobertGary1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GM Tech2Win software RobertGary1 S-Series Tech 7 05-01-2017 12:28 PM
autozone starter gamble failed RobertGary1 S-Series Tech 18 04-13-2016 07:17 PM
I have a Tech2 barbierij S-Series Tech 2 07-16-2015 03:06 PM
What is possible with access to a Tech2? saleenman S-Series Tech 6 12-12-2012 09:14 PM
Tech2 blen_to Astra Tech 4 10-04-2011 03:28 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:47 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.