SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn L-Series > L-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-17-2018, 06:02 PM   #21
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 41,161
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Pilot View Post
Yeah, I looked it up and found 3 P/N's. Still 3? Seems like overkill to me...
There was a time about 40 years ago when automakers complained of inability to meet future emissions standards when EPA began legislated emissions requirements. This was when GM, Ford and Chrysler refused to pay royalty fees to adopt what's recognized as the only true electronic fuel injection system in the world, Bosch fuel injection. I followed corporate incompetence as each company struggled to make their throttle body injection system work to failure. I already bought a foreign sports car, a Japanese car with German fuel injection. It was bullet proof and didn't have or need a catalytic converter. I was driving around with a foreign sports car with trouble free EFI while I read about the Big Three having problems with their versions of fuel injection. Once catalytic converters were mandated, the cries of inability to meet ever tightening emissions were heard in the halls of Washington DC. Once the Big Three accepted Bosch fuel injection, emissions and engine reliability improved tremendously but muscle cars fell by the wayside as EFI systems were still in their infancy. Fast forward and we now have anywhere from 400-800+ hp engines meeting the tightest emissions standards. All due to how EFI systems evolved (if I'm not mistaken, still Bosch) and improvements in catcon design.

I'm not sure three catcons are overkill as much as the two precats may be by choice in the tight confines of an engine bay requiring small precats to massage pollutants as soon as they leave the engine with the third one cleaning up the rest not converted by the precats.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 07-17-2018, 06:06 PM   #22
rb6667
Advanced Member
rb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to behold
 
rb6667's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 662
 

2004 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
2004 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

A tough call for sure. My 3 cents. Ask yourself some questions:

What can I get for my vehicle if I sell it as is? $150.00-$200.00 tops at the junkyard.

What other vehicle can I buy?

What will I have to pay for this other vehicle?...and will it meet my needs for towing behind your motorhome?

I would agree with Pierrot. I'm very sure a good muffler shop could replace all 3 Cats for much less than you were quoted.

Sleep on it and let us know.

...
2004 L-Series Wagon 2.2
2004 L-Series Wagon 2.2
2004 L-Series Wagon 3.0

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to rb6667's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help rb6667 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
rb6667 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2018, 06:59 PM   #23
Sky Pilot
Member
Sky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Laguna Niguel
Posts: 389
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
2008 SKY Red Line
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rb6667 View Post
A tough call for sure. My 3 cents. Ask yourself some questions:

What can I get for my vehicle if I sell it as is? $150.00-$200.00 tops at the junkyard.

What other vehicle can I buy?

What will I have to pay for this other vehicle?...and will it meet my needs for towing behind your motorhome?

I would agree with Pierrot. I'm very sure a good muffler shop could replace all 3 Cats for much less than you were quoted.

Sleep on it and let us know.
I agree with all you guys. Before the great cat meltdown of 2018, the car was the perfect DD. I know the ROI on having the cats replaced is zero, but I also know that I can't buy another new or even a very good used car for $2,200. I called a local muffler shop this evening as he was closing and the guy seemed to know what he was talking about, even about my recent overheating issues linked to a clogged cat (which was actually good to hear, I thought maybe another issue came up). So he's going to call me back in the AM after he checks on pricing, so we'll see....

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Sky Pilot's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Sky Pilot reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Sky Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 04:56 PM   #24
Sky Pilot
Member
Sky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Laguna Niguel
Posts: 389
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
2008 SKY Red Line
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Ok, here's the scoop. The muffler shop called and said he disassembled the system and found that the front cat was fine, but the rear cat (somehow) melted and disintegrated and the debris was discharged and plugged up the main cat. He said it generally takes a lot of heat to melt a cat and asked if I was pulling any codes. I told him only a recurring P0174 every several months, but nothing more. Bottom line, he's charging me $950 to rebuild and install carb cert'd cats, rear and main, but said that unless I solve the reason for the melted cat, it may come up again.

And now for the interesting part... this muffler shop was recommended by the tow truck driver that towed the LW from my house to my mechanic. When I called the muffler shop, he said, "yeah I remember that car, I looked at it yesterday" WTF.... So when I took the LW to my mechanic, he sent it over to this muffler shop for a repair estimate, marks up the estimate by several hundred and then tells me it's going to cost me $2,200. Time to find a new house to flip... er, um, mechanic.

I still need to find out what caused my cat to chernobyl.....

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Sky Pilot's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Sky Pilot reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Sky Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 05:15 PM   #25
rb6667
Advanced Member
rb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to behold
 
rb6667's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 662
 

2004 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
2004 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

That random code you mentioned is Bank 2 Running lean. That will cause an engine to run hot. (Fry the cat)

Common areas to look at:

Dirty MAF. ( Can be cleaned with the proper MAF Cleaner only.)

Vacuum leaks (Broken Vac lines)

Intake manifold leaks (Bad Intake Gaskets)

Low Fuel Flow (Failing or weak fuel pump)

Other forum members will add some suggestions as well.

And yes, It does sound like you will be taking your mechanic off of your Christmas list this year!

...
2004 L-Series Wagon 2.2
2004 L-Series Wagon 2.2
2004 L-Series Wagon 3.0

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to rb6667's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help rb6667 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
rb6667 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 05:23 PM   #26
Sky Pilot
Member
Sky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Laguna Niguel
Posts: 389
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
2008 SKY Red Line
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rb6667 View Post
That random code you mentioned is Bank 2 Running lean. That will cause an engine to run hot. (Fry the cat)
Bank 2 is the front not the rear, correct? I replaced the front O2 sensor probably twice. Now, if I was told it was the front and it's really the rear, then that would explain the chernobyl affect.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Sky Pilot's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Sky Pilot reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Sky Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 06:15 PM   #27
rb6667
Advanced Member
rb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to beholdrb6667 is a splendid one to behold
 
rb6667's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 662
 

2004 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
2004 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Pilot View Post
Bank 2 is the front not the rear, correct? I replaced the front O2 sensor probably twice. Now, if I was told it was the front and it's really the rear, then that would explain the chernobyl affect.
^^ Yes, Bank 2 is closest to the radiator.....BUT.....there could be many other reasons as mentioned earlier...and more that could be added to that list.

Seems to me, I Remember FDryer having some issues with aftermarket O2 Sensors. Bosch O2 sensors solved his problem IIRC. Has the O2 sensor ever been replaced on bank 1? (Bank 1 next to firewall) How about the downstream O2 Sensor?

...
2004 L-Series Wagon 2.2
2004 L-Series Wagon 2.2
2004 L-Series Wagon 3.0

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to rb6667's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help rb6667 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
rb6667 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 07:07 PM   #28
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 41,161
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Bank 1 are cylinders 1, 3, and 5 which are the closest to the front of the dash.

Bank 2 are cylinders 2, 4, and 6 which are the closest to the front of the vehicle.


HO2S bank 1 sensor 1 - O2 sensor on the exhaust manifold before the precat, firewall side.

HO2S bank 1 sensor 2 - O2 sensor after the precat, firewall side.

HO2S bank 2 sensor 1 - O2 sensor on the exhaust manifold before the precat, behind the radiator.

HO2S bank 2 sensor 2 - O2 sensor on exhaust manifold, after the precat, behind the radiator.

My apologies if I'm a little slow to respond about this thread and P0174. Adding a clogged precat that may be clogging the third catcon rounds out a picture of this problem. It's equally difficult to review service manual info as four O2 sensors are used and manuals did not specify which sensor location related to error code (P0171 and P0174). Several manuals were reviewed to be sure P0174 is for the radiator side precat O2 sensor mounted on the exhaust manifold.

Diagnostic Aids

*A skewed mass air flow (MAF) sensor may set this DTC.
*The system will go lean if an injector is not supplying enough fuel.
*The system will go lean during high fuel demand.
*An EGR valve stuck open may set this DTC.
*A skewed engine coolant temperature (ECT) sensor may set this DTC.


Review the service bulletin and VIN. The maf sensor may be contributing to a lean condition. One way to check maf sensor operation - reader displaying maf sensor output. Idle rpm value should be around 0.4 lb per minute (my baseline value).

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 07:41 PM   #29
pierrot
Master Member
pierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud of
 
pierrot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Glendora, CA
Posts: 3,350
 

2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Pilot View Post
Bank 2 is the front not the rear, correct?
Correct. Bank 2 is the front side (nearest radiator) of the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Pilot View Post
I replaced the front O2 sensor probably twice. Now, if I was told it was the front and it's really the rear, then that would explain the chernobyl affect.
rb6667's comments regarding other possible reasons for the DTC P0174 are in agreement with what I see in my '00 L-Series FSM (L81 engine).

Diagnostic Aids The following are malfunctions that couldcause a lean condition: vacuum leak; fuel pressure low; poor fuel quality or water in fuel; exhaust leakage around manifold gasket or front O2 sensor; fuel injectors clogged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Pilot View Post
Ok, here's the scoop. The muffler shop called and said he disassembled the system and found that the front cat was fine, but the rear cat (somehow) melted and disintegrated and the debris was discharged and plugged up the main cat. He said it generally takes a lot of heat to melt a cat and asked if I was pulling any codes. I told him only a recurring P0174 every several months, but nothing more. Bottom line, he's charging me $950 to rebuild and install carb cert'd cats, rear and main, but said that unless I solve the reason for the melted cat, it may come up again.

And now for the interesting part... this muffler shop was recommended by the tow truck driver that towed the LW from my house to my mechanic. When I called the muffler shop, he said, "yeah I remember that car, I looked at it yesterday" WTF.... So when I took the LW to my mechanic, he sent it over to this muffler shop for a repair estimate, marks up the estimate by several hundred and then tells me it's going to cost me $2,200. Time to find a new house to flip... er, um, mechanic.

I still need to find out what caused my cat to chernobyl.....
As for the formerly "trusted mechanic," what he did was simply foolish. It goes without saying that his price quote to you is utterly indefensible. And how short sighted is this? Could he have been so conceited as to believe that you couldn't/wouldn't try to find a better price quote for the work to be done? When a situation arose at my father's service station where he'd sent the vehicle to another shop for muffler work - which he did do - he never upsold the work. He would have his customer deal directly with the muffler shop for that need. My father's view was that there was enough money to be earned honestly and justly. Apparently, the former trusted mechanic has a different view of the business.

...
294,000 miles-it keeps on rolling!
The blessings of liberty erode in my country.
Gov't's grown bigger, but a chance exists that it will be reduced. I'm cautiously hopeful.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to pierrot's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help pierrot reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
pierrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2018, 07:09 AM   #30
floridasl22002
Senior Member
floridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,284

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
2002 SL2
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Just throwing this in there for an earlier post about the $950 cost of rebuilding the Cats.

Rock Auto shows ALL the front exhaust systems including CATS for less $500.00. Why would you spend $950.00 rebuilding something when replacement with new is half that price??? Even if you got the parts and asked a muffler shop to install them, the cost would still be less than $950.

Your "mechanic' tried to scalp you, it appears the muffler shop is trying to do the same. You aren't wearing a signs saying 'scalp me' are you? LOL

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to floridasl22002's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help floridasl22002 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
floridasl22002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2018, 09:08 AM   #31
Sky Pilot
Member
Sky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Laguna Niguel
Posts: 389
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
2008 SKY Red Line
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasl22002 View Post
Just throwing this in there for an earlier post about the $950 cost of rebuilding the Cats.

Rock Auto shows ALL the front exhaust systems including CATS for less $500.00. Why would you spend $950.00 rebuilding something when replacement with new is half that price??? Even if you got the parts and asked a muffler shop to install them, the cost would still be less than $950.

Your "mechanic' tried to scalp you, it appears the muffler shop is trying to do the same. You aren't wearing a signs saying 'scalp me' are you? LOL
Really Rock auto was almost $700 out the door for those 2 "carb" compliant cats (front and rear) with shipping (4 to 6 days) and Ca tax (2 days shipping made the total bill $896), I'm getting the car today - 1 day. Not sure how much labor rates are in your neck of the woods but out here in SoCal they're fairly high, like north of $110/hour. So if the hardware is $700 that leaves roughly 2 hours of labor. Can you diagnose which cat failed, then disassemble and reassemble and install those 2 cats in 2 hours or less? I spent almost that much time installing a Solo high flow cat in my Sky Redline. As for being scalped, too late, I'm bald.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Sky Pilot's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Sky Pilot reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Sky Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2018, 11:05 AM   #32
pierrot
Master Member
pierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud ofpierrot has much to be proud of
 
pierrot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Glendora, CA
Posts: 3,350
 

2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

For any of you who may not be familiar, CARB stands for California Air Resources Board.

...
294,000 miles-it keeps on rolling!
The blessings of liberty erode in my country.
Gov't's grown bigger, but a chance exists that it will be reduced. I'm cautiously hopeful.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to pierrot's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help pierrot reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
pierrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2018, 01:05 PM   #33
floridasl22002
Senior Member
floridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,284

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
2002 SL2
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Apologies as I didn't realise that you live in the State of High Prices, so yes you will pay more.

Down here in Florida they ditched testing some years ago, so if you have duct tape, you can keep your vehicle going. Yes I've witnessed a redneck hillbilly in a sedan with no doors on and trim/lights held on by ductape. Doesn't make me feel safer on the roads here, but even with a perfect car, the drover standards are appalling here. One day many people will wake up to find they have a turn signal stalk that makes the turn lights work. I think most see it as something you hand something on!! LOL
Main dealer labor rate here are right $140 per hour. My indi garage charges $75.00

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to floridasl22002's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help floridasl22002 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
floridasl22002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2018, 09:56 AM   #34
Sky Pilot
Member
Sky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Laguna Niguel
Posts: 389
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
2008 SKY Red Line
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasl22002 View Post
Apologies as I didn't realise that you live in the State of High Prices, so yes you will pay more.

Main dealer labor rate here are right $140 per hour. My indi garage charges $75.00
Eh, no biggie... everything is expensive out here and we are taxed to death by the clown Brown, but someone has to pay to care for all his constituents

On a more pleasant note, I did pick up my LW last night. Runs like it did before the chernobyl episode and I'm not detecting any tranny issues with it. Still needing to solve why I keep getting the P0174 code even after I've replaced the sensor several times; the last of which was in 2016, the MAF was replaced in late 2015.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Sky Pilot's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Sky Pilot reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Sky Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2018, 01:41 PM   #35
Sky Pilot
Member
Sky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Laguna Niguel
Posts: 389
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
2008 SKY Red Line
Default The saga continues...

Maybe it's the LW's way of saying "Look pal, I'm tired and I just want to die, please leave me alone!".

I was getting a P0174 and P0171 code leading me to a MAF, so I replaced the MAF and reset the ECM. A couple days later the CEL came back on. So, I hooked the scanner up again, the P0171 went away leaving the P0174, so I replaced the O2 sensor and again reset the ECM. Last night the CEL came on so when I arrived at home I pulled my scanner out and voila, the P0174 is back, and a new code, P0151, WTH... Low voltage going to sensor? So like the proverbial one legged pirate, I'm stumped and that Tesla 3 is looking better and better.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Sky Pilot's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Sky Pilot reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Sky Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2018, 04:42 PM   #36
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 41,161
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Everything given (from service manuals) must be reviewed, checked and tested to eliminate the list of possibilities. It may be a sore point but my guess is when paying thru the nose with a dealer, good dealers will go thru everything by the book ($$$$) with the best ones finding the problem while the bill is large. I would guess great independent shops live and die by their work thru word of mouth from satisfied customers.

A recent interest in random youtube videos shows a (popular?) repair shop sharing repairs. After viewing a few videos, I found this honest shop reversing a diyers assumptions of ecm failure; this repair shop found an incorrect ecm that didn't match exact connections and bent pins. Two errors made by a diyer attempting to save a few dollars. This video revealed the wrong ecm, forced connections and moving the problem away in a new direction. This small repair shop reconnected the original ecm, got the car started and immediately (not heard in the video) determined a blocked catcon. This shop was the second one with the car towed to his shop. It wouldn't start with gauges going dead. He went thru possible power issues and other avenues until it steered him to the ecm since the original ecm was left on the passenger floor. Better than average techs work with everything they know that makes them great to eliminate everything to find the problem. Straightening bent pins and reusing the original ecm allowed the engine to startup and move. He closed the video stating he would advise the owner of what he found and leave it up to the owner to either return the car back to the first shop to continue troubleshooting (blocked exhaust system) or allow him to continue to complete repairs. Not only did I find this attitude from one repair shop, I found the same business attitude in home hvac repairs with an honest licensed plumber/hvac tech. These two youtubers are self employed and reflect the best in their business. No prices are mentioned to remove debates about costs. Both businesses reveal the mistakes made by others and use their skills to fix problems. Expertise is everywhere. Its just difficult sometimes to separate 'replacement artists' from genuine repair people with experience and skills.

A Tesla aye? Either the long list of those will wait longer for their original low priced Model 3 or pay for awd to get ahead of the line..........

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2018, 04:50 PM   #37
Sky Pilot
Member
Sky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Laguna Niguel
Posts: 389
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
2008 SKY Red Line
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
A Tesla aye? Either the long list of those will wait longer for their original low priced Model 3 or pay for awd to get ahead of the line..........
Actually, I received an e-mail from Testa (I expressed some interest in the 3 a couples of years ago so I was on their mailing list) telling me that I could now reserve a 3 with delivery in 2 to 4 months. So either they found some way to really ramp up production, or thousands didn't want to wait 3 to 4 years and cancelled their pre-orders; I'm thinking the latter of the two.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Sky Pilot's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Sky Pilot reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Sky Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2018, 05:23 PM   #38
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 41,161
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

My tablet gets(?) Google news and a few come from sites about Tesla. I use their sources and compare then to general news to separate fact from fiction. Last I read was 5k cars per week with ramping up still in progress. The news of disappointed future M3 owners on waiting lists was estimated to be a few thousand and Tesla won't reveal numbers so speculations are all over the place. With Tesla being the 'new car company', zero dealerships to deal with and direct marketing, Tesla appeals to a wider car buying crowd both interested in the dealer experience. This may be a plus insofar as the number of people no longer interested in the latest turn of events where Elon stated those willing to pay a premium for M3 with awd and larger battery will be moved to the head of the line.......Whether this actually occurred is still up in the air. His targets for delivering are changing and this last offer may have angered many.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2018, 06:46 PM   #39
Sky Pilot
Member
Sky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the roughSky Pilot is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Laguna Niguel
Posts: 389
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
2008 SKY Red Line
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Check your mail..

SP

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Sky Pilot's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Sky Pilot reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Sky Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2018, 08:08 PM   #40
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 41,161
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: An odd thing happened this morning...

Email read and its similar news from sites devoted to Tesla.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
03 Ion 2.2L Overheated first thing this morning. rcote20 Ion General 10 12-03-2012 02:52 PM
03 Ion 2.2L Overheated first thing this morning. rcote20 Ion Tech 2 11-28-2012 11:48 AM
odd thing happened to my 97 SC2 harley2003 S-Series General 0 04-21-2011 02:26 PM
What is the wierdest thing that has happened to your car saturncrzy S-Series General 27 05-17-2009 11:19 AM
This car is the worst thing that's ever happened to me BlackPlastic S-Series Tech 21 04-28-2009 05:23 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:59 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.