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Old 03-25-2018, 03:00 PM   #21
OldNuc
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Default Re: 99 SL2 Cali Emissions Garbage

Further the preCAT is only active when BOTH excess HC and O2 are present. An IR thermometer or camera will convince you of this.

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Old 03-25-2018, 04:21 PM   #22
Saturn Night
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Default Re: 99 SL2 Cali Emissions Garbage

The A.I.R. Pump may only operate during warm-up, but the pre-cat will be "active" during all periods of engine operation. It is designed just like a regular converter, but they are installed for automakers trying to get emissions as low as possible.(For ULEV status) There are the same types of chemicals used to coat the honeycomb of a pre-converter, as there are the normal converter.

The biggest issue, with these converters, are they are "TWC"(Three-Way Catalytic), which means the engine MUST stay running between 14.6-14.8:1 air-fuel ratio at all times. TWCs have been the "standard" for reducing emissions, since 1981 in the United States. Toyota uses the same types of converters as GM, Ford, or Chrysler would. Converters are standardized because of EPA Federal Regulations. A Toyota, that is not running correct air-fuel ratios will burn out a converter as soon as any other engine will. Temperature has very little bearing on converter life, as compared to actual contaminants contained in the exhaust.

With the age and wear on our S-Series, running a perfect air fuel ratio is about impossible, especially with excessive oil consumption when the valves or pistons.

The easiest fix will be to find a manifold and have the shop make a downpipe.

The O2 sensor is before the converter, so gut it out, since you don't have a sniffer test to worry about. I would gut the other converter out, too, but that will require a spark plug fouler to shut off the "Service Engine Soon" light and will be visible in your anti-tampering test.

Then remember WHY we don't vote for the political party members that are represented by a gigantic donkey(and we all know what another term for a mule or donkey is, and I think it rhymes with "pass".....)

Toyota doesn't do it "right", by putting converters on the manifolds. The reason that converters were moved to about ⅓ the length of the entire exhaust was done so because the heat of the converters under the hood will cause the fuel lines to heat up, which results in vapor lock, until the fuel lines cool down amd the fuel returns to liquid state.

This didn't bode well, in the 1980s, when carburetors were still being phased out(the last model of U.S. vehicles with a Rochester Quadra-Junk were 1990 Cadillac Fleetwoods with the Oldsmobile 307cu.in. V-8 to be sold).

While the later designs of car aren't so much affected by that, anymore, the American automakers still used such designs up until they realized that making cars harder to repair resulted in more trade-ins and new/used vehicle sales.

Maybe they should try designing the engines to burn the fuel correctly, instead of wasting 60-75% of the heat energy contained in the fuel, so they don't need a converter every 5 ft of exhaust. Oh, wait, then they can't rake in over a trillion dollars per year in gasoline tax revenues because you get 28mpg instead of 51mpg....

For those that wish to build an IC engine the "right" way, I recommend you research Smokey Yunick and both his "hot vapor engine" patent, as well as his "Hot Vapor" 1984 Pontiac Fiero 2M4, that had NO EMISSIONS control devices at all(including removal of the catalytic converter), no electronic sensors(except the ignition coil/distributor), PASSED EMISSIONS TESTS, operated at 80% Thermal Efficiency(only 20% of the fuel energy was wasted by heat production), averaged over 50mpg, and did 0-60mph in about 7seconds with the 2.5L Pontiac OHV Iron Duke(which went from its stock 91hp @ 4,200rpm/132lbs.-ft. @ 2800rpm to 250hp & 240lbs.-ft., or 100hp/liter, in 1984!!!. I could be mistaken, but that is about double the HP of our stock Twin Cams, with an ARCHAIC, OHV, pushrod engine, that was made from LESS thermally efficient CAST IRON(instead of the more expensive designs of cast-aluminum....), but I could be mistaken because I wasn't brainwashed by some college professor, or an ASE-Certification Tech School course.....

Now, I am not a college-educated engineer, with a degree or anything(and Smokey Yunick dropped out of high school in 10th Grade, by the way), but I am fairly certain that Fiero has better performance and fuel economy and lower emissions than the cars that Toyota was producing in 1984. I know it has lower emissions and better performance than Corvettes and Mustangs of that day(heck even better than many cars of the 1990s....)

Certainly makes you wonder why our 1.9L engines need all that crap on them, doesn't it?

...
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"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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Old 03-25-2018, 05:36 PM   #23
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Default Re: 99 SL2 Cali Emissions Garbage

Your first paragraph is incorrect in regards to the S-Series.

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Old 03-25-2018, 08:39 PM   #24
TomM96
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Default Re: 99 SL2 Cali Emissions Garbage

Thankyou OldNuc & Saturn Night, for fascinating revelations-

> " Further the preCAT is only active when BOTH excess HC and O2 are present. An IR thermometer or camera will convince you of this. "

Remarkable...
I stand CORRECTED!

Thanks gents for informative discussion.

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Old 03-25-2018, 10:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: 99 SL2 Cali Emissions Garbage

There are other manufactures who fit a 3 way cat in the preCAT position so as to allow reducing the physical size of the main cat. Saturn elected to meet the EPA mandates by reducing the time between start and closed loop by forced O2 sensor heating. The preCAT goes rapidly to incandescent and the resulting radiant heat is employed for O2 sensor forcing to closed loop.

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Old 03-30-2018, 09:00 PM   #26
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Default Re: 99 SL2 Cali Emissions Garbage

Now i understand the skepticism concerning some of the emissions regs--

__that is a Very Expensive solution for a short-term problem !
* *
I've been impressed how pleasant is the exhaust aroma from my '97 during warmup... but maybe i need to check it within 1 minute of startup!

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