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View Poll Results: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?
Yes 153 84.53%
No 28 15.47%
Voters: 181. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-27-2006, 07:21 PM   #41
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?

Quote:
If the pricing was "fixed" by the corporate philosophy being a contractual obligations on the part of the dealers, that conduct would simply be price fixing. No way is any prudently thinking business dealer going to allow himself to be trapped into "price fixing" And of course, no manufacturer is going to put in print (((>contractual oblications <))) the requirement that dealers charge the same price

I wonder is that price fixing? Their all SATURN dealers it would be like going to two different Bob Evans restaurants within a 100 mile radius and ordering the same meal for a radically different price. Isn't price fixing defined as an agreement between different businesses to charge an agreed price on a similar product carrying different brand? Like a set of PONTIAC dealerships agreeing to sell Solstices for the same price as a group of SATURN dealerships sell the SKY for. Besides the SATURN dealerships have exclusive sales territories. Isn't that right? You have to travel further to get to another SATURN dealership, usually another city. On the other hand, their are four FORD dealerships within a 50 mile or less radius from my home. If they all agreed to sell the Mustang for the same price I could see the point. I just don't think that price fixing, given the situation, has anything to do with it. If it does, then does commerce law spell these issues out and is it Federal or State?

The whole "Price, Philosophy" question seems to me to be a non-issue your taking the word DEAL out of dealership and making past puffery on SATURNs part, some kind of mutual agreed upon social contract that isn't there.

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Old 02-27-2006, 10:24 PM   #42
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie
Some members who are in the market for a Saturn SKY report that their local retailer is charging above MSRP for the roadster. In your opinion, is a retailer who pads the prices of the SKY violating Saturn's pricing philosophy?

Post your thoughts!

Thanks,
Charlie

My retailer quoted under $26,000 loaded w/everything but auto trans. Does that sound about right?

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Old 02-28-2006, 08:12 PM   #43
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpleibo
I can assure my dealer that he will get at a minimum $10000 worth of bad publicity for the $5000 premium they want to charge. I wonder how a sign carrying disgruntled customer will affect business on a Saturday afternoon?
probably not much, but don't get me wrong, I despise markups as much as anyone.....

bottom line, there are dealers who will take advantage, and there are dealers who will not.....unless you have extra money to throw at a greedy dealer, be patient and seek out dealers without the markup....

as far as markups violating Saturn's pricing philosophy, I thought that the pricing philosophy is based on a "no haggle" situation when the customer comes to the dealership and sees the dealer's selling price


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Old 03-01-2006, 07:55 PM   #44
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?

Hi fellow saturnians!?! just wanted to chime in on this subject. I am a Sales Advisor on the East Coast. I have seen a lot of bullitens that other dealers were doing this and I for one and not happy. I was a Saturn owner long before I was an employee and I feel blessed that I was able to be hired as a member of the Saturn team when I did. I came here because of their ideas and the "Saturn Difference". I am very upset at the greed of some dealers that have done this.
I stand behind my owner and can say that WE ARE NOT PADDING OUR SKY's!! For those who our, you should be ashamed. I can not believe that you would take advantage of your customers that way. If the Saturn customers wanted a padded price they can go across the street to the Pontiac dealer and pay $5000.00 more then sticker. We did our own investigation in our area of the Pontaic and Saturn stores, The average mark-up was $5000.00 in the Pontiac dealers and we found ONE Saturn dealer who was selling $2,000.00 more then MSRP. I expected that from the Solstice, but was floored when we found the Saturn dealer who was padding their Sky's.
Thanks for the ear everyone....

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Old 03-04-2006, 06:43 PM   #45
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn10157
Hi fellow saturnians!?! just wanted to chime in on this subject. I am a Sales Advisor on the East Coast. I have seen a lot of bullitens that other dealers were doing this and I for one and not happy. I was a Saturn owner long before I was an employee and I feel blessed that I was able to be hired as a member of the Saturn team when I did. I came here because of their ideas and the "Saturn Difference". I am very upset at the greed of some dealers that have done this.
I stand behind my owner and can say that WE ARE NOT PADDING OUR SKY's!! For those who our, you should be ashamed. I can not believe that you would take advantage of your customers that way. If the Saturn customers wanted a padded price they can go across the street to the Pontiac dealer and pay $5000.00 more then sticker. We did our own investigation in our area of the Pontaic and Saturn stores, The average mark-up was $5000.00 in the Pontiac dealers and we found ONE Saturn dealer who was selling $2,000.00 more then MSRP. I expected that from the Solstice, but was floored when we found the Saturn dealer who was padding their Sky's.
Thanks for the ear everyone....
We work for the Baltimore, Maryland Area Saturn Retailers.
As far as we are concerned we are happy selling them sticker price, and are also pleased that there is no ADM ( additional Dealer Mark-up) as far as our dealership is concerned, but if told to we will do what we are told cause we have got bills too y'know. The Baltimore group is owned by the Mileone Corp.

Saturn Of Glen Burnie
Saturn Of Ellicott City
Saturn Of Owings Mills (This is where we are)
Saturn Of York Road
Saturn Of Belair


We are standing behind the Saturn Philosophy because even though have only worked here for a year I can see how people are treated here and it would be a shame to see that degenerate. If you are interested in a Sky though please give any of our store a call our number at Owings Mills is
(410)356-6900. My name is Phil and it is a privelage to be with Saturn.

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Old 03-06-2006, 02:43 PM   #46
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?

My response to this question is basically this. Saturn (Corp) allows for a certain pecentage of "addendums" for their new vehicles. "Pad" sounds like negotiating profit most other "old school" dealers use to make a deal happen. We (i am a Saturn sales consultant) clearly advise our guest of the addendum added to our new cars by explaining the value it offers them. The "protection package" is a valuable dealer installed accessory. It retails for about $1400 and is presented to all of our guest. Whether the guest purchases it or not is up to them. That's the Saturn Philosophy, present the guest with up-front pricing, with no hassle to buy. The SKY, unlike the Solstice will offered to our Saturn-based owners first. As u know, they will be very limited and the idea is to have our guest drive them....not "e-bay" them.

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Old 03-06-2006, 03:26 PM   #47
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?

HERE IS THE SATURN PHILOSOPHY AS PER THEIR WEBSITE:

Creating a "No-Hassle" sales policy wasn't intended to create a revolution, just to solve a problem. We don't like getting the runaround any more than you do, which is why we set out to be honest and straightforward with our customers. We just thought it was a good idea, and that if there were more people out there like us, we'd do okay.

Turns out, we were right. Over the years, consumer research has shown repeatedly that our customers rate Saturn top in sales satisfaction.

Of course, now that we're seasoned veterans of this business, we don't intend to make it easy on the competition. That’s where the following Saturn Values come in. Think of them as a set of guiding principles that help us create and foster the Saturn Promise – everyday, with every vehicle, for every customer, everywhere across the country.

I AM AGAINST ANY DEALER PADDING THE PRICE AND I AM MOST CERTAIN THAT THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN UP HERE OR SOMEONE MAY GET A SNOWBALL THROWN AT THEM! HAVING SAID THIS, THERE ARE NO SPECIFICS IN THEIR SAYING ABOUT PRICE ,,,,,

OPENSKY

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Old 03-06-2006, 05:00 PM   #48
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?

id say yes. Its very misleading to the public.

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Old 03-06-2006, 10:05 PM   #49
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Default Msrp

I have seen similar threads in a number of forums on this - has everyone forgotten that the S is MSRP is for Suggested. Yes I think it would be bad overall for anyone to pay more than MSRP at a dealer. But has anyone asked if that is what they are charging for ALL Skys or maybe there are a couple dealers asking $5k extra for the car they have on the showroom floor so that no one will buy it and they can keep it on the showroom floor - and if you order one you pay MSRP -- then again the Sky hasn't started to ship yet so maybe that is more of a Solstice thing. As for a video game console - the difference between $199 and $299 is not really comparable to $25k vs $30. then again I could never understand why any sane person would pay more than retail price for a video game console when you know 6 months later they would be $99 with a cartridge or extra controller included.

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Old 03-07-2006, 09:09 PM   #50
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?

YES Absolutely!!!!!!

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Old 03-08-2006, 04:02 AM   #51
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Mad Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?



The Saturn Dealer here in Tucson, Az., Owned by Bob Beaudry, can't tell me what they are going to charge me for a Sky that is months away, even though they have my $1000 down payment. They couldn't tell me why I should have the limited slip differential and they did not know which trim colors are offered with the different paint colors. I hope this is not a continuing theme! I wanted them to sign a paper that said they would charge me MSRP and they wouldn't.
Low Integrity

Michael

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Old 03-08-2006, 04:09 AM   #52
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy

Quote:
Originally Posted by skysthelimit


The Saturn Dealer here in Tucson, Az., Owned by Bob Beaudry, can't tell me what they are going to charge me for a Sky that is months away, even though they have my $1000 down payment. They couldn't tell me why I should have the limited slip differential and they did not know which trim colors are offered with the different paint colors. I hope this is not a continuing theme! I wanted them to sign a paper that said they would charge me MSRP and they wouldn't.
Low Integrity

Michael

They couldn't even tell you what an LSD is for, or the COLORS???? Are they BRAIN DEAD??? Wow, what a bunch of nimrods. I understand your overwhelming urge to get a Sky, but dang, sounds like someone needs to read up on their product!

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Old 03-08-2006, 05:06 PM   #53
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?

i just want to say that the MSRP is exactly that. a SUGGESTED retail price.

in hotspots where we have 350 people wanting a sky, why not up it just a little, considering the dealership getting the most Sky's is only getting about 20.

I mean... when you take into consideration the limited numbers of these cars, you can't really expect us to just bend over and take it, can you?

I myself am in a low-volume area and i've already seen about 20 people asking about the sky. i cant imagine what its like in florida or california right now. i dont blame certain high-volume dealers for raising their SUGGESTED price to match the volume of customers.

anyway, this is MY PERSONAL opinion, it has nothing to do with my bosses, my colleagues or anyone else.. i just thought i'd put it my two cents as a salesperson.


Thanks, have a nice day.

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Old 03-09-2006, 06:22 PM   #54
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?

YES they are violating. 15 years of simple pricing, no loss on sales below MSRP, I would NOT purchase any other Saturn car period...even the lovely Sky in future years, if the dealer unfairly pushed prices up. If anything, the dealer should push GM for larger production so they can sell more cars.

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Old 03-09-2006, 10:28 PM   #55
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?

A Class Action Suit may be in order so that at minimum those who paid dealer mark-up can get that money back.

A case may also be made for punitive damages.

tino

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Old 03-10-2006, 11:29 AM   #56
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy

Quote:
Originally Posted by soltino
A Class Action Suit may be in order so that at minimum those who paid dealer mark-up can get that money back.

A case may also be made for punitive damages.

tino
why would a class action suit be in order and who would it be against?......it's pretty simple, buy at the price you agree to......if you don't like the price, then find another dealer

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Old 03-10-2006, 11:30 AM   #57
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?

Ok guys, let's remember that we live in a free country and that we also work under the system of capitalism. That means that when we own a business we are entitled to make a profit. Our customers are free to buy from any business that they want. If I, as a business, do not respond to the marketplace, I am hurting my business. It is as simple as that. The consumer must decide whether having a particular item "first" is of sufficient value to him for him to pay a premium to obtain it. That said, if s business has entered into a contract with a customer to supply an item at a previously agreed upon price, then he MUST honor it or forfeit his goodwill built up with his customers. Good will is, in my evaluation, much more important to a business than a transient profit opportunity.
So IS a dealer that surcharges Saturns violating Saturn's policy? I think that he is absolutely violating the spirit of the policy, but he has the right to do so. He also bears the responsibility for the consequences from customers.

Hope that I haven't bored you all to death...stepping down from the soapbox.

BTW: I do NOT work for a dearler or for GM or Saturn, but have been in the automotive business for over 20 years.

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Old 03-11-2006, 04:39 AM   #58
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWS
why would a class action suit be in order and who would it be against?......it's pretty simple, buy at the price you agree to......if you don't like the price, then find another dealer

If false advertising re: the no-haggle policy can be shown than it can be argued that all Dealers who received more than MRSP, and GM, should be the defendants.

Further if it can be shown that there was something that GM could have legally done to prevent this "profit contrary to advertised policy" then GM would be jointly liable.

I think a sharp lawyer could make a very good argument supporting the theory that "no-haggle" would and should be interpreted by a reasonable person to mean no mark-up on their Saturn cars.

Yes, i am aware that the buyers were not forced to buy these cars but i think that can be shown to not be the crux of the case.

tino

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Old 03-11-2006, 08:52 PM   #59
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy

GM/Saturn/auto manufacturers cannot dictate what a dealer charges, it's part of the federal antitrust law....

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Old 03-12-2006, 03:03 AM   #60
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Default Re: Is a Retailer Who Pads the Price of the SKY Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy?

The question was concerning "Violating Saturn's Pricing Philosophy" not law. Yes, those dealers are, period! Having contacted several dealers here in SoCal, I found most very eager to line their pockets and Saturn's philosophy be damned! Those dealers will NEVER get my hard earned dollars. Sure I want a Sky, and I will get one too, but when it satisfies a dealers greed! If I have to drive to NoCal or Arid-zona, I'll get one, and even though I would normally get one under a GMS scenario, I know it's a hot car, so I'd be willing to pay MSRP, but not a penny over!

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