SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Sky > Sky General
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-23-2001, 11:35 AM   #61
Jeff
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I thought you might ask that.

The basic reason is that I want something that's a more on the practical/family car side of the spectrum. But I'd like something that's more sporting than say an L300, Accord or Camry V6.

The 9-3 appeals to me because I like the styling, the interior is very nice, fairly roomy, I like the uniqueness, and the hatch makes it very versatile. The 9-3 SE model with a 5 spd is good for about 6.8 0-60, so it's plenty quick, and I won't buy an automatic. The BMW's are nice (a coworker just got a 330 sedan), but it's too small, the interior is well put together but very bland and cold, I'm not wild about the exterior styling, lots of people have them, and they're a lot more expensive. A comparably equipped 325 is almost $10,000 more than a 9-3 SE. Also, the 9-3 wins in safety, all come standard with side airbags, active head restraints, and Saab is one of the only companies that actually crashes their cars into each other during development. None of those stupid crashes into concrete walls (when was the last time you heard about an accident like that?).

I guess what I'm saying is that I put a bit more emphasis on practicality and style than pure sportiness, so I'd be happy to trade some of the BMW's traits for the Saab's.

Jeff

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Jeff's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Jeff reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
 
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 08-23-2001, 11:52 AM   #62
Harry
Advanced Member
Harry is on a distinguished road
 
Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Posts: 842

2001 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Default

Don't get me wrong, I'd take a Saab over a BMW too. It's too bad the 9-3 is small compared to my LW, which makes it too small for my needs. The 9-5 wagon is waaay outta my price range which seems rediculous considering that it is based on the same chassis as the LW but ends up at about double the price.

Hopefully the roadster will be nice by the time my midlife crisis has arrived and I no longer worry about the Saab 9-3 being too small for my wagon full of baby carriages and high chairs ;-)

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Harry's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Harry reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Harry is offline  
Old 08-23-2001, 05:51 PM   #63
spencerb
Master Member
spencerb will become famous soon enoughspencerb will become famous soon enough
 
spencerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 5,007
 

2008 Astra XR
Default

Quote:
Harry (08-23-2001 09:45 a.m.):
Unless the car is rear engined, I don't want to drive a RWD ever again. Having little or no weight over the drive wheels doesn't make any sense.
I don't know if you are specifically speaking of traction on ice. If so, I will say that there are parts of this country that have icey/snowy roads on average two days a year. Not enough to base a car buying decision.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to spencerb's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help spencerb reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
spencerb is offline  
Old 08-23-2001, 11:34 PM   #64
Saturnmeister
Senior Member
Saturnmeister is on a distinguished road
 
Saturnmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,409
Default

Actually, Jeff, the ideal front/rear weight balance for front drivers is supposed to be 60/40, and many are close to that (including the Saturn L Series).

Your 1992 SC weighs 2,372.4 lbs (curb weight), assuming it's standard shift (automatic weighs in just over 2400). I've still got the '92 brochure, along with every one since (my first Saturn was a '92 SC).

Again, although FWD has its adhesion limits, 180 hp/190 lb-ft isn't going to push those limits beyond useful adhesion, and I don't see it being a factor in acceleration. As long as the overall vehicle size and weight is not too large, FWD can provide every bit the acceleration of RWD. As for the BMW/Saab comparo you're making, you're comparing a turbo (lag) and a clunky shifter with a naturally aspirated engine of bigger displacement and a smooth shifter, not exactly a scientific comparison of FWD vs. RWD. Further, with as LITTLE horsepower and torque as the SKY (180/190), you'd suffer more of a penalty by reduced WHEEL hp by sending it through a driveshaft to the rear wheels than any traction advantage could overcome in acceleration runs. More moving parts and mass to turn = less hp at the wheels, something that matters less in extremely powerful machines, but this one isn't pushing that envelope.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Saturnmeister's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Saturnmeister reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Saturnmeister is offline  
Old 08-24-2001, 06:53 AM   #65
Harry
Advanced Member
Harry is on a distinguished road
 
Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Posts: 842

2001 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Default

I'm told the L wagons are better balanced than the sedans, and the 300's are less well balanced because they have an extra 180 lbs up front (is that all engine?).

With respect to my earlier RWD comment, I meant any low traction situation.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Harry's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Harry reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Harry is offline  
Old 08-24-2001, 07:41 AM   #66
Jeff
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I wasn't sure how much my car weighed, thanks for looking that up. Knowing that further makes my point that it's suspect that the Sky in production form could weigh only 2200 lbs.

"180 hp/190 lb-ft isn't going to push those limits beyond useful adhesion", I can spin the wheels easily in my 92 (5 spd) if I accidentally let the clutch out too fast. Certainly past their useful adhesion.

"FWD can provide every bit the acceleration of RWD", sorry this simply isn't true in most cases. A 300 hp, FWD Cadillac STS does 0-60 in the mid to upper 6's, the 300 hp Lexus GS400 does it in 6. 275 hp E430 does it in about 6.2. They're both RWD.

As for the Saab, ok first I compared the 205 hp 9-3 SE to the 325. Now I'll compare the Viggen to the 328. The 328 has 192 hp, the Viggen's got 230hp and 258 lb-ft of torque. A considerable advantage, turbo lag or not. The 328 will do 0-60 in 6.5 and the 1/4 in 15.0, the Viggen's stats are the same. That same 328 was mentioned as having a balky shifter in the review I took those numbers from. And the Viggen is electronically limited to 184 lb-ft in first gear, and the torque steer is still tremendous, due to the flat torque curve nature of a turbo engine. So to say that the Sky has so "little" power doesn't make much sense. Turbo torque, which often reaches the peak below 2000 rpm, delivered to the front wheels, is not the best way to get performance out of a car. Even the 185 hp base 9-3 has problems with grip and torque steer.

You also state that there's greater power loss through a rear drive transmission than a front drive. That may be true, we don't actually know without some numbers, but it's not likely more than a few percent. And you still ignore the dynamics of an accelerating car. When accelerating, the force of the ground pushing the wheels ahead creates a rotation that lifts the front wheels and presses down on the rear wheels. This reduces the grip for FWD cars, increases it for RWD.

I think the statistics speak for themselves, if you compare RWD cars to FWD cars of similar weight and power, the RWD cars are always faster, as a group. Yes there might be a front driver here and there that is close to the rear drivers, but as a group they're certainly slower.

jeff

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Jeff's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Jeff reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
 
Old 08-24-2001, 10:26 AM   #67
Yankeez01L30094SL2
Member
Yankeez01L30094SL2 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 337
Default

Saturn should come up with something really diffrent like a combustion engine driving a electric generator, then having elctric motors at all four wheels. Computer controlled to constantly adjust power at all four wheels as the car turns, accelerates, brakes, ect. All on a strong spaceframe with polymer panels. Now that would be a diffrent kind of car that would rip down the road in total control, and would still get that exhaust note from a revving engine but it is just making amps instead of turning gears, driveshafts, and CV joints. Now that would be a Roadster.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Yankeez01L30094SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Yankeez01L30094SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Yankeez01L30094SL2 is offline  
Old 08-24-2001, 10:42 AM   #68
Jeff
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That idea is basically what the military is moving to for future wheeled vehicles. There's a development vehicle called the RST-V that does just that. Diesel engine, electric motor hubs that provide power to the wheels that need them. it's pretty cool.

jeff

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Jeff's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Jeff reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
 
Old 08-24-2001, 11:36 AM   #69
Armadillo
Member
Armadillo is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 180
Default

Interesting comments so far.

On the Sky...I would have hoped for a radical design departure. <defeated sigh> Personal opinion...I don't like the look.

Plastic Gravity...I agree completely. :-(

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Armadillo's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Armadillo reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Armadillo is offline  
Old 08-24-2001, 12:38 PM   #70
Yankeez01L30094SL2
Member
Yankeez01L30094SL2 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 337
Default

Ahh the army is building it, I wan't royalties!! Actually alot of great technology came about from the military.

As for the Sky I like the "living badge" idea. A glowing saturn badge would be really cool on the next S-series, at least on the sport coupe or roadster version. I could see how some buyers who just wan't a Saturn just for transportation wouldn't like it. But I think it would be cool. Little details make a difference, and really "make" a car.

The more I look at the sky, I really like it. The part time back seat seems like a good idea also.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Yankeez01L30094SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Yankeez01L30094SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Yankeez01L30094SL2 is offline  
Old 08-24-2001, 04:57 PM   #71
L300Boy
Master Member
L300Boy is on a distinguished road
 
L300Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 4,249
 
Default

Does anyone know more about this "translucent" cover? Is this similar to the bubble-window car homer simpson designed, or does it barely let light in?

I would really like to see this car with it's top on ...

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to L300Boy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help L300Boy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
L300Boy is offline  
Old 08-24-2001, 07:49 PM   #72
cityhawk
Master Member
cityhawk is a splendid one to beholdcityhawk is a splendid one to beholdcityhawk is a splendid one to beholdcityhawk is a splendid one to beholdcityhawk is a splendid one to beholdcityhawk is a splendid one to behold
 
cityhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,852
 

1993 SW2
Default

My only comments are, that it's a major step in the right direction for Saturn to build some excitement (though, as the wagon fans spokesperson, how 'bout a sport SW wagon with that power plant?)... I don't really care about the dash, and the styling doesn't offend me, though a more aggressive style should help build more excitement in the intended audience.

One comment though... DON'T build this without polymer panels! >(

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to cityhawk's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help cityhawk reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
cityhawk is offline  
Old 08-24-2001, 10:00 PM   #73
L300Boy
Master Member
L300Boy is on a distinguished road
 
L300Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 4,249
 
Default

I really would like to drive an echo or prius one of these days so i can actually experience it. I guess in a small car, it wouldnt be all that bad. It gives it a high tech feel. Although, with so many people <blah>ing about it -- maybe its a bit to controversial to put into this car. Oh well, it definitely would be a conversation piece -- if a car had one.

I am going to keep open to the concept until i actually experience it. Its the same thing people say about center-mounted power windows -- until they realize, gee, this is easier then fumbling blindly with 4 different buttons on the door. In other cars with both power locks and windows on the door, i have seen accidental locks/unlocks all the time.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to L300Boy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help L300Boy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
L300Boy is offline  
Old 08-25-2001, 12:03 AM   #74
Saturnmeister
Senior Member
Saturnmeister is on a distinguished road
 
Saturnmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,409
Default

LOL I wouldn't (want to drive an Echo to "experience it")...experience either driving an Echo OR driving a car with the instruments mounted in a dumb location! What's next, putting the instruments up by the sun visor?! Just put 'em where they belong! Maybe they should put them in the back seat, so your "back seat drivers" can tell you what you're doing wrong lol! }>

Jeff: I'm not suggesting that there's no advantage traction or handling-wise in a RWD car, and I do understand the concept of weight transfer...just the same, I don't think any of the examples you have provided "prove" that the acceleration difference is linked to FWD vs. RWD, but more likely to other factors like gear ratios, tires, etc, etc. There's just too many variables to state that the drivetrain configuration (i.e., FWD vs. RWD) is the differentiating factor in how fast a car is vs. another. You're also comparing high horsepower and torque vehicles where the limits of FWD adhesion are more likely to become a factor. In smaller/lighter cars with less HP and torque, the drivetrain configuration isn't going to make or break which car is faster IMO. Oh, and as for the spinning of tires comment, don't you think you'll light up the tires in a rear driver if you're too quick on the clutch/heavy on the gas too? I do!

As for whether this car will actually weigh what they say, who knows? I'm just making a prediction based on the stats they provided.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Saturnmeister's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Saturnmeister reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Saturnmeister is offline  
Old 08-25-2001, 02:19 AM   #75
L300Boy
Master Member
L300Boy is on a distinguished road
 
L300Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 4,249
 
Default

hahahahahahah ... alright alright .. i personally am a fan of instruments where they belong -- under the hood! You see, if you are ever so curious as to what your speed could be, RPMs, or if the check engine light is on, simply pop your hood, turn on cruise control, tie the steering wheel to steady it, and roll down the window. Crawl out of the car, and lift the hood! it couldnt be any easier.
Just make sure there's not a turn up ahead!


Quote:
Saturnmeister (08-25-2001 12:03 a.m.):
LOL I wouldn't (want to drive an Echo to "experience it")...experience either driving an Echo OR driving a car with the instruments mounted in a dumb location! What's next, putting the instruments up by the sun visor?! Just put 'em where they belong! Maybe they should put them in the back seat, so your "back seat drivers" can tell you what you're doing wrong lol! }>

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to L300Boy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help L300Boy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
L300Boy is offline  
Old 08-25-2001, 07:25 PM   #76
Harry
Advanced Member
Harry is on a distinguished road
 
Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Posts: 842

2001 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Default

A co-worker has an Echo and that centre console is sure strange. The only reason why I can see someone wanting that is for a parent so they can make sure their child isn't speeding while they teach them to drive. It's not like the area right in front of the driver is used for anything useful either; it's just blank.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Harry's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Harry reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Harry is offline  
Old 08-26-2001, 01:15 PM   #77
KerryrreK
Member
KerryrreK is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 196
Default

I think that the instrument cluster should be in the trunk, that way you can change cd's in the cd changer while your back there. If they won't put it there, they should make a small watch that you can wear with the gauges on it. It could have a wire running to the steering wheel to get the information. You could also check the time this way. Or perhaps they could just move the gauges all the way over to the passenger side and your passengers could be sort of like your navigators. "Cop up ahead John, your doing 45 in a 40, lets reduce it just a little....almost........a little further......ok." and then, "I'll be right back, I'm gonna go check the tach, you want me to put in some different cd's?".

Kerry

Kerry

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to KerryrreK's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help KerryrreK reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
KerryrreK is offline  
Old 08-26-2001, 01:17 PM   #78
phatmac
Junior Member
phatmac is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16
Default

Build it!

As a saturn owner who has been looking for a convertible recently, I would buy a Saturn roadster in a second.

I am 6'3" so the Miata and the MR2 spyder are tight fits as is the too expensive TT, and I believe them to be the true sports cars of the roadster world. I fit much better into the S-series, which the delta platform is replacing.

I obviously have a thing for a two seater, but I love the idea of a tonneau'd 2+2, think early to mid 60's Thunderbirds. Gee, where do I put groceries in an MR2? I would like to take more than 1 friend with me sometimes too.

I bought my L300 because it satisfied my need for acceleration, I would have loved to by a 3-door, but the performance left a lot to be desired. We've all been wanting Saturn to polish it's performance image, and if we can see a SC'd 2.2 in this drop top, the sedan and coupe will see it too. It's a shame I had to buy a mid size coupe to get Saturn practicallity and acceleration too.

Saturn absolutely needs to liven up its brand image and I think this is a great start. I definately believe that this would be a hot seller and I certainly would be in the market for one.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to phatmac's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help phatmac reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
phatmac is offline  
Old 08-26-2001, 04:54 PM   #79
Yankeez01L30094SL2
Member
Yankeez01L30094SL2 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 337
Default

I agree, Saturn should build it. The modular roof seems like a good idea. I guess it means you can go fully open or have a T-top type also? I would like a non supercharged base version available. If the price for the version we see now to be above $18,000 or so. If it is aimed at younger buyers it has to be affordable! And keep the LED lighting if possible.

Saturn needs to make a statement with the launch of the 03' S-series, I think the roadster, would bring attention. I would defintley consider one but I would wan't to see the other body styles first.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Yankeez01L30094SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Yankeez01L30094SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Yankeez01L30094SL2 is offline  
Old 08-26-2001, 04:58 PM   #80
L300Boy
Master Member
L300Boy is on a distinguished road
 
L300Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 4,249
 
Default

Better yet, who really needs gauges on a roadster anyway? Your probably going really fast anyways and running the tach past red line, no need to put a silly quanitive measurement on it. Just wait until you get pulled over, and ask the cop what speed was on his radar gun. Or if your engine blows, you probably were past red line on the tach.



Quote:
KerryrreK (08-26-2001 01:15 p.m.):
I think that the instrument cluster should be in the trunk, that way you can change cd's in the cd changer while your back there. If they won't put it there, they should make a small watch that you can wear with the gauges on it. It could have a wire running to the steering wheel to get the information. You could also check the time this way. Or perhaps they could just move the gauges all the way over to the passenger side and your passengers could be sort of like your navigators. "Cop up ahead John, your doing 45 in a 40, lets reduce it just a little....almost........a little further......ok." and then, "I'll be right back, I'm gonna go check the tach, you want me to put in some different cd's?".

Kerry

Kerry

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to L300Boy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help L300Boy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
L300Boy is offline  
Closed Thread



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should Saturn build a hardtop Sky coupe in addition to the current roadster? Charlie Polls and Questions 22 06-02-2009 03:24 PM
Sky Roadster agoldslsaturn Sky General 0 04-27-2006 03:11 PM
Saturn Counts On Money-losing Sky Roadster Specialist Sky General 20 01-19-2005 12:28 AM
Lutz Calls For Significant Changes To Saturn Sky Roadster Charlie Sky General 30 01-25-2002 05:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:45 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.