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Old 10-24-2013, 12:38 PM   #1
se4587
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2002 SL2
Default Flood damage

Hi everyone, I've been reading this forum non-stop ever since I found it; it's a HUGE wealth of knowledge.

I'm working on my fiancÚ's 2002 SL2, which was in a flood about 4-5yrs ago. Ironically, the car runs great though. However, there have been some electrical issues that I've been trying to fix. I discovered a corroded rear defroster relay which I fixed, and that fixed the rear defroster not working (yay!). But I still have an issue of no power mirrors, no dome or trunk light (ever, and I've tested the bulbs with a 12v power supply; they're good), and the power locks won't lock because the trunk is "open".

I removed the driver's seat and cleaned up that ground point very well; no help. I attacked the IPJB F2/F5 fuse block and cleaned all those spots up as best I could. All the fuses are good. All the relays (with those problems above) are good. I was seriously hoping that the ground under the seat would fix those problems, but it didn't.

I tried to fix the trunk lock switch as best I could, but the switch still doesn't work properly. The bronze tab isn't broken. I'd say I can get the car to lock with the remote once, then as soon as I unlock the doors and try to lock them again, I get the 3 honks which means a door isn't closed. I've taken the front passenger door switch apart and cleaned it up, but not the other 3 yet (next on my list to do).

Any other ground points/locations I should clean up? Having water damage, anything low would be my first place to look.

Thanks for all the help; this forum rocks!
Seth

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Old 10-24-2013, 12:57 PM   #2
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Flood damage

Replace the entire inside fuse box, I/P Panel. Any 02 model car for sure and maybe any 00-02 may also swap but I do not have reliable info to support that conclusion.

The dome light, locks etc are fed from the continuous power feed sources and those probably burned up in the flood. as they were energized while under water. Only fixable by replacing the entire panel. Decent Pick and Pull will have it for cheap.

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Old 10-24-2013, 01:15 PM   #3
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Default Re: Flood damage

Thanks OldNuc.

So there's no repairing the damage? I fix electronics for a job/hobby, I just need to know what to fix Since none of the fuses blew, does that mean some of the wires became fuses and are destroyed?

Replacing the entire I/P fuse block doesn't sound like fun

Maybe the fiancÚ just has to learn to live without a few features :P
Thanks,
Seth

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Old 10-24-2013, 01:22 PM   #4
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Flood damage

Checked for corroded door switches? The wiring diagram below may help as the body control module plays a role. There are many ground connections spread around the car.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: Flood damage

Thanks for that schematic, is that from a FSM? I'd like to get one of those to help troubleshoot stuff. The Haynes & Chilton are next to worthless to me...

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Old 10-24-2013, 02:54 PM   #6
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Flood damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by se4587 View Post
Thanks OldNuc.

So there's no repairing the damage? I fix electronics for a job/hobby, I just need to know what to fix Since none of the fuses blew, does that mean some of the wires became fuses and are destroyed?

Replacing the entire I/P fuse block doesn't sound like fun

Maybe the fiancÚ just has to learn to live without a few features :P
Thanks,
Seth
I doubt that this is a dirty door switch as the door switch is not common to all your failures. The list you posted of the failed circuits is a internal feed from the IP BAT fuse in the UHJB. It is a common failure point without a flood and putting an energized circuit under water leads to corrosion damage. These are internal inaccessible connections as they are basically IDC type connections and once corroded or burned they are junk.

If you want a decent manual then subscribe to ALLData for your car. http://www.alldatadiy.com/index.html This gets all the FSM info. You can try disconnecting the battery and then disconnecting the 68 pin black connector on the rear of the I/P panel and looking for dirty/corroded pins and/or connectors as if you are real lucky that is where it has failed.

To replace the I/P you remove the center console, heater controls and radio. Unbolt panel, disconnect and lift out, it is not a real tough job if you pull it out that way. You can practice at the pick and pull yard.

In ALLData you need to look up the power and ground distribution drawings as that shows the actual power feed circuit wiring.

If you have an internal failure now expect more later and the next thing to go will be the fuel pump, Murphy's Law.

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Old 10-24-2013, 03:05 PM   #7
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Flood damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by se4587 View Post
Thanks for that schematic, is that from a FSM? I'd like to get one of those to help troubleshoot stuff. The Haynes & Chilton are next to worthless to me...
Yes, from the service manual. As suggested, paying for a subscription to alldata is better than those aftermarket manuals, while helpful for all but explicit info. There are (pirated) eBay dvd's, free pirated info too if you search diligently. Or pm me an email address for more service manual info.

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Old 10-24-2013, 05:35 PM   #8
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Flood damage

That pirated copy is only current up to the original publication date, something like late 2001 for Saturn, and any updates to errors are not incorporated. ALLData is the latest info available.

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Old 10-24-2013, 08:00 PM   #9
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Flood damage

Actually, some here have up to date info to 2009 or 2010. All pirated and more than enough for anyone to use.

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Old 10-24-2013, 08:10 PM   #10
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Flood damage

IIRC those are compilations of the original data added in batches to those DVDs. Before doing anything rel critical I would be checking closely against the TSBs. That 98 FSM copy is plagued with the 98 vintage first issue information that may or may not all have been corrected. If a person feels competent enough to spot incorrect information then they are not a bad deal but if a person does not have that level of expertise then either subscription service is a much safer bet.

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Old 10-24-2013, 09:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: Flood damage

I do not have "compilations" or just a '98 copy. Your assumptions are just that.

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Old 10-24-2013, 09:27 PM   #12
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Flood damage

I believe you made reference to the former eBay DVDs that were tossed off of eBay due to copyright violation. Those are compilations of several sections running from 98 to whatever was available right before the sales were stopped. The older material was not ever brought up to date just rolled up into the multilayer VM.

My concern is that someone is going to make the assumption that they contain the latest up to date information, they do not.

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Old 10-24-2013, 10:45 PM   #13
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Default Re: Flood damage

I made a suggestion to search ebay but do not verify or say with certainty any validity to these pirated dvd's. I use the term 'pirated' for anyone that isn't ignorant of what pirated material means while also suggesting a source for free info that's valid for GM info including TSB's up to 2005. Others here have their versions that are good to 2009 or 2010 with TSB's. I leave it up to the individual to decide what he or she wants to do. If you noticed, I also mentioned using alldata. To each his own.

In view of Julian Assange (Wikileak) leaking copies of confidential information given to him by Brian (now Chelsea) Manning and Eric Snowden leaking out NSA confidential files, all to the embarrassment of the U.S. security establishment and none founded to be less than accurate, pirated GM database that's been copied and distributed for awhile now can be presumed to be accurate and since its non security information that does no harm to national security, I don't think its too much of a stretch to view any pirated information as inaccurate. The person willing to search for free information, accurate or not will ultimately determine the validity of non national security information, as much as GM would like not to have it available to the public. No different from pirated movies three months after release to the public - the time to see a copy online without going to the theater. The same for anyone finding out sooner or later the accuracy or lack thereof for Chilton or Haynes manuals to supply information.

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Old 10-27-2013, 11:35 AM   #14
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2002 SL2
Default Re: Flood damage

Thanks for everyone's input; I decided to purchase a 1yr membership to AllDataDIY with a discount code NEWDIY2013 for $9.99.

It seems pretty good so far. And it loads nicely on my iPad for browsing while working on the car.

I think OldNuc is right; I bet the constant power lines were fried when the thing went under water. I'm surprised the car only has the few problems it does.

If/when I actually find the problem, I'll report back & post my findings.
Thanks everyone!

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Old 10-27-2013, 12:41 PM   #15
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Flood damage

Your symptoms point right at that black 68 pin connector on the back of the panel or the internal wiring. Look at the power distribution schematic and you will see the common feeds to all these components. The individual schematics give you the circuit number and if the number matches then the feed is common and internal. These fail at either the 68 pin plug or internally and the way to tell is if the entire branch is dead then it is the plug and if it is only partially dead it is probably internal wiring which is entirely inaccessible.

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Old 10-27-2013, 08:47 PM   #16
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Happy Re: Flood damage

OldNuc, you called it! I removed the IPJB, disassembled it as far as I could, and then some It was hard to separate the 3 plastic plates; there are solid metal wires connecting this pin to that pin, all over the place. They are pressed into the plastic, so you have to peel them off while you pull the plastic apart.

Found a broken wire that was probably just shorting enough to make contact (I had 12 volts at the places I was supposed to, but nothing worked). It just wasn't enough to carry any current (shown in the yellow circle in the pic).

I found some similar gauge solid copper wire, bent it to the same shape as the old one was, and smashed it into place. Reassembled, and now my dome light works, cargo light works, power mirrors work again, and so do the power locks!!

This job is probably much easier if you take OldNuc's advice & just replace the IPJB (it isn't hard to remove, either; I only had to remove the center console). It was a few hours of cleaning, disassembly without breaking anything, cleaning, and reassembly, but it was worth it to me!

Thanks again for everyone's input; it really helped me narrow down my problem.
Seth
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Flood damage

I hope you cleaned out all that oxide that is in the picture. That level of disassembly requires a great deal of attention to detail or the thing never works again. What goes on which pin on top is key and separating without breaking anything is an undertaking of no small magnitude. For the 30-40 the pick and pull charges for a dry replacement they are easier and cheaper to replace. That being said, nice job.

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Old 10-27-2013, 10:26 PM   #18
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Default Re: Flood damage

I definitely cleaned as much oxide out as I could with alcohol & some brushes. I also dunked the ends of the IPJB into my sonic cleaner with alcohol for a bit (too bad the whole thing wouldn't fit).

It definitely isn't something I *liked* doing, but I'm really glad I fixed it! and even more glad I didn't break it; the fiancÚ would've killed me!

I fix stuff like this all the time; granted it's usually more along the lines of circuit boards, but this repair job definitely is not for the faint of heart. Next time I'll probably locate a pick-n-pull

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Old 10-27-2013, 10:31 PM   #19
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Flood damage

Each pin has a unique identifier and each hole in the top lines up with a row and column of pins. Once you figure out the offset it is not hard to make the map of where the double end connectors belong then top removal and sandwich disassembly can proceed. A good DVM with a continuity tone is real handy when doing this.

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