1996 Saturn SL2 Transmission / Valve Body Question

[jjbeano]

Hey all,
I have a 96 Saturn SL2. I've been trying to troubleshoot this myself. It slams into gears, seems confused on many shifts, and doesn't go into overdrive (4rth) ever. I have error codes.

P0741 - Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit Performance or Stuck Off
P0781 - Gear Selection 1-2 Shift Malfunction

I used to have P0711 - Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Circuit Range / Performance. I replaced the Tranny Temp Sensor, and this error is no longer coming back.

However, the gear slamming is still there. I recently had the tranny rebuilt, and a new valve body installed. I'm not extremely knowledgeable in this area, but I don't mind troubleshooting and trying to diagnose myself. I have people telling me that I need to drop a new "used" tranny into it. I REEEEEALLLLLYY don't think that will solve it. All of my troubleshooting really makes me think this is directly related to the valve body.

This is where I'm at...please tell me if it's accurate - On top of the valve body there is a connector with all the wires attached. When you remove it, there are like 8 little prongs or something like that. Now, when I removed this cap, it was soaked with tranny fluid. Is that SUPPOSED TO BE THERE???? Or is this a faulty seal in the valve body? To me, it would explain the eratic behaviour, since the fluid is all over the prongs, perhaps conducting the signal between prongs and totally screwing with the computer. Am I wrong to think this? There shouldn't be any fluid under that cap, right? I have a warranty on the valve body. Should I replace the valve body?

Aside from this, what is the main solution to the "Gear Selection 1-2 Malfunction"? I haven't found a lot of answers to what that would be. Or would replacing the valve body solve that error code as well?

Thanks in advance for any help!

[campus189]

All Fuses good? underhood & in the car?
All your grounds & electric connections clean going to battery?
Saturn are really finicky when it comes to electrical connections.

It would be wise to clean your connector.
Then inspect the connector.
This video will show you how.

Make sure the connector doesn't look like this..


Then get a multimeter and watch this video..

Please post your results here.

[jjbeano]

Fuses under the hood were good. I checked them all today. Didn’t check the ones in the car, cause I didn’t think there’d be anything related to tranny / valve body there.

Grounds and electrical connections seemed good, but I didn’t take an extremely close look at them. I’ll check them again.

I already did clean the connector as soon as I noticed that it was soaked. I cleaned it out, used the electrical connector spray cleaner on it, and dried it with a vacuum hose for 10 minutes. I put it back together, drove it for 5 minutes, and it was completely soaked again. Also, while it was disconnected, I cleared the error codes by removing the battery terminal. While driving, the two codes came on again. I really feel it’s directly linked to the fluid making its way into the connecter prongs. Connector doesn’t have any burnt prongs, but I think it’s crossing electrical signals cause it’s so wet in there. Your thoughts on that?

Also – Awesome videos on YouTube. Thanks!

I don’t currently have my car. It’s at a shop, but I hope to get it either tomorrow or Monday. I’ll post my results after I have access to it.

Thanks for your help

[Chazberry]

I'd be surprised if ATF conducts electricity. I think that Connector Gasket is a little hard to come by . . .
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho....php?t=180244#

[1sksc2]

you need to fix the leak. its the first step. because it could be causing all your issues. just go to a jy and buy a new used cover and clean it, make it look pretty and install. all your problems should go away

[Woodpecker]

I had this issue (with burned pins as well), and did the valve body for bad solenoids as well. I still get fluid creep into the connector. If you want the full 100+ page ATSG manual in a zip file, PM me with an email address. It's very helpful.

[jjbeano]

Ok, I've checked all fuses - Good

Grounds seemed to fastened nicely

I saw the post about tranny fluid and how it shouldn't be a conductor...researched it a little more to verify, and that is correct. So the fact that fluid gets in the connector should not be an issue.

I followed the instructions for the multimeter test. Very first time I ran through it, the only problem I noticed was on the SECOND GEAR prongs. Those numbers were all over the place, ranging from 10 to 200 ohms. But then I wanted to verify what I just saw, and I started re-testing all of them. When I was re-testing, it seemed as though all of them were jumping all over the place. So I figured that maybe I just wasn't contacting the prongs well enough, and I made absolutely sure to put pressure only on the prongs that I needed to test. Question - Is it a freak accident, or poor placement that I was getting erratic readings? Or could there be something that is making the whole valve body go crazy, then normal for a bit, and back again...and I just happened to hit it in between?

Results - everything was basically 5.2-5.6, EXCEPT for SECOND GEAR, which was a steady 2.1. I didn't see anything else noteworthy.

So I cleared the codes and test drove it. Everything seemed fairly smooth, literally for about 10 minutes of soft driving. I was going through the "relearn" process again, and the car WAS even shifting into overdrive, which means the Torque Converter was working properly. (right?) And why would this now be working? Could it have something to do with the prongs being loose?? Did I jostle the prong, and it started working until it shook loose again?

Then I got the error -
P0741 - Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit Performance or Stuck Off.

I didn't drive it much more after that, cause it started hard shifting again. Took it back, shut it off, and the above error was the only one in the system.


So my questions -

Does it matter that the prongs seemed loose under the connector?

If the Ohm readings were accurate, and SECOND GEAR is messed up, what do I change? Is there a "second gear solenoid" in the valve body?

If the Ohm readings were accurate, then what is the next step in troubleshooting why I keep getting the P0741 - Torque Converter Clutch error, since the Ohm readings seemed to display an acceptable measurement?

And what is that disk looking thing attached to the side of the valve body? At the top, it has two prongs to connect wires, but only one of them is being used. Should the other one have a wire connected to it?

[campus189]

Recheck the numbers multiple times.
Write down the results & post here again...

If you have numbers jumping all over the place, this is due to improper probe placement.

When you probe the terminals properly, you will get a solid reading..

To answer your question, yes there is a second gear solenoid.
Also, the disk thing your describing should be the neutral safety switch.
Not sure what your talking about.

Question - Is it a freak accident, or poor placement that I was getting erratic readings? Or could there be something that is making the whole valve body go crazy, then normal for a bit, and back again...and I just happened to hit it in between?

The connections on the transmission you are testing are connected to only the bus plate and solenoids, thats it..

Don't go tearing the valve body apart or replacing until you get solid numbers first. No need to replace something that doesn't need to be replaced.

If you get solid readings and you find 2nd gear is bad, the video below will show you how to switch, replace & test solenoids.

Did you look at my video here?
Saturn TAAT Transmission Solenoid Testing & Replacing with valve body removed

The video will explain how to test, swap or replace solenoids..
Make sure they don't look like this..

[Woodpecker]

Originally Posted by jjbeano

So my questions -

Does it matter that the prongs seemed loose under the connector?

If the Ohm readings were accurate, and SECOND GEAR is messed up, what do I change? Is there a "second gear solenoid" in the valve body?

If the Ohm readings were accurate, then what is the next step in troubleshooting why I keep getting the P0741 - Torque Converter Clutch error, since the Ohm readings seemed to display an acceptable measurement?

And what is that disk looking thing attached to the side of the valve body? At the top, it has two prongs to connect wires, but only one of them is being used. Should the other one have a wire connected to it?

1. It shouldn't, but I guess it's possible.

2. Get the 2nd gear solenoid issue fixed first, then see what you've got. I got TCC errors when mine had 2 bad solenoids in it. I replaced the valve body (which has new or proven good solenoids), and along with the other issues, the TCC code went away too.

3. That's the Transmission Range Selector, which lets the PCM know what gear has been selected. The manual I sent tells you how to check that it's properly adjusted (10 minute job). No, it only has a 1-wire connector. I thought the same thing at first look.

If it were me, instead of going into the valve body, with the slamming gears and such I'd just get a reman valve body for less than $200 on ebay (or from Special Forces here on the forum). That way you get the Sonnax sleeve correction for the main valve at the same time, and it'll be easier than removing and opening the valve body. Knowing what I know now, I can R&R one of those valve bodies in probably an hour or little more. It's not that bad of a job.