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Old 06-27-2016, 10:44 PM   #1
fdryer
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default P0455 after P0442

After attempts to solve a recurring P0442 small evap leak with supplementing the gas cap seal with extra O-rings without success (others succeeded) (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=211929), my P0442 went away only to return as P0455 large evap leak. P0442 was intermittent since last year and went away for awhile until P0455 popped up. State inspection also came and went with manually resetting this error code and driving just enough to have all emissions monitors go 'ready' to pass emissions inspection a few months ago. I calculated the time it would take to reset the error code (P0455) early in the year to pass state inspection and deal with the repair later when weather warmed up. After experimenting and reading as much as I could, I resigned myself to replacing the rusted fuel filler assembly after inspecting likely suspects for the error code. The randomness of the repeating error code was puzzling and the largest hint was from members replacing their fuel fill pipe. Well, after delays and procrastinating, I ordered a replacement pipe from rockauto and proceeded to coat it with undercoating left over from a relative's experiment in treating his car. I examined the fuel fill pipe a few months ago and other than a very corroded set of pipes, large main fill pipe and smaller vent pipe, there didn't seem to be any discernible cracks but rusted metal was flaking. When I finally set up for removing this rusted set of pipes, it became obvious where the leak occurred. Then it was just a matter of examining where to loosen fasteners and disconnect wires for full access to removing and replacing it.

After lining up the replacement and reconnecting everything and double checking spring clamps. I left the MIL indicator on to reset itself. While I was under the car I tried to determine (with no luck) a source of rattling as if shocks, rubber bushings, etc., were worn out and WD40'd everything I saw as possible sources to delay suspension work. After approximately three engine start, run and drive cycles, the check engine light turned off on its own. I went to fill up on gas when I saw the missing yellow check engine light. Patience was needed to allow the OBD II system detect no more fuel/evap system leaks to complete its own self tests with several drive cycles. I was anxious to see if I missed anything but sure enough, a few days of regular driving allowed the system to determine a repair was done correctly before extinguishing the engine light. The two cracks in the small diameter vent pipe were seen once I examined where to begin removing fasteners and disconnecting wires. I broke the small pipe off as it was more or less glued to the small rubber hose going to the evap system.

While I had the fuel fill pipe removed and transferring the evap vent solenoid box and housing to the new pipes, I was curious about its workings. As anyone can see, the short rubber hose feeds air freely into the medium plastic pipe (not shown in pics). I popped the small plastic cap off and discovered a simple foam filter inside the black plastic vent solenoid assembly with the solenoid controlling the vent valve (open with ignition OFF, closed with ignition ON). Blowing thru the rubber pipe verified a normally open valve, removing the filter for cleaning of built up debris after 13 years of use and replacing everything back before reattaching it to its new bracket with a pop rivet. I presumed this vent solenoid never failed (with its own error code) so I reused it. The P0455 error code and engine light went away after a few drive cycles.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:00 AM   #2
Saturn9
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: P0455 after P0442

"The randomness of the repeating error code was puzzling and the largest hint was from members replacing their fuel fill pipe."

I wonder where the -specific- problem actually lies. Intermittent problems always vex me

Replaced gas cap just in case, its usually recommended first for this.

Found obvious break in vent tube at the attachment bracket { as in your photos }. I bridged that with a section of gasoline hose { like used for fueling an outboard motor} which i thought solved the problem.

All remedies seem to help. Sometimes its three fills before the P0455 is thrown, sometimes it can happen twice on a tank. But it never happens when the tank is full, only when it gets to about half way. Now that's a mystery.

FWIW anyone wanting to read codes via ODB port can get a bluetooth reader for as little as $6 online. Using a free Android app called "Torque", one can get the codes and clear them, as well as other functions.

Project is now to remove and inspect the filler neck assembly. repair if possible, or replace as probable. they are pricey though.

Frustrating.

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Old 08-12-2016, 12:19 PM   #3
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: P0455 after P0442

I had the slow leak on mine a few weeks ago (422 ???) . I was able to remove the old O ring (it was more like a "U" ring) it was dry and cracked. I decided to try a regular o-ring and it worked.

I'll get the part number when I get home. I gotr it out of my standard airplane o-ring kit.

...
2003 Vue - 2.2L with Manual Trans. (Swapped)
Originally had 2.2L and Auto trans.

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Old 08-12-2016, 02:18 PM   #4
Saturn9
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Default Re: P0455 after P0442

Thanks Waiter21

where is this o-ring located in the car, and where would i get the o-ring if i happen to be short an airplane and associated parts? <ggg>

and i am getting the large leak message P0455, not slow

also have to figure out how to access the upper filler neck attachment bolt for removal...

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Old 08-12-2016, 03:13 PM   #5
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Default Re: P0455 after P0442

If you can find a good used fuel fill neck then the price won't be too expensive at all. I looked up "used parts, new york state" and came up with this result (it wasn't the only one).

http://www.centralcity.cc

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Old 08-12-2016, 03:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: P0455 after P0442

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn9 View Post
.......also have to figure out how to access the upper filler neck attachment bolt for removal...
Open the gas door and bend the rubber neck gater surrounding the filler nozzle to pull it away. You'll see the mounting screw. If it's severely rusted, apply penetrant and use a sharp Phillips screwdriver to loosen it for removal. Press firmly to prevent rounding off the screw head.

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Old 08-12-2016, 06:36 PM   #7
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
1995 SL2
Default Re: P0455 after P0442

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn9 View Post
"The randomness of the repeating error code was puzzling and the largest hint was from members replacing their fuel fill pipe."

I wonder where the -specific- problem actually lies. Intermittent problems always vex me

Replaced gas cap just in case, its usually recommended first for this.

Found obvious break in vent tube at the attachment bracket { as in your photos }. I bridged that with a section of gasoline hose { like used for fueling an outboard motor} which i thought solved the problem.

All remedies seem to help. Sometimes its three fills before the P0455 is thrown, sometimes it can happen twice on a tank. But it never happens when the tank is full, only when it gets to about half way. Now that's a mystery.

FWIW anyone wanting to read codes via ODB port can get a bluetooth reader for as little as $6 online. Using a free Android app called "Torque", one can get the codes and clear them, as well as other functions.

Project is now to remove and inspect the filler neck assembly. repair if possible, or replace as probable. they are pricey though.

Frustrating.
I too was puzzled a while back when the P0442 check engine light came on at seemingly random times sometimes several weeks or more would pass. The engine light seemed to come on only when I was stopped at a very long traffic light or stuck in heavy traffic.

According to the FSM, the ECM only runs certain Evap tests under certain conditions. A P0442 (Small Evap Leak) or a P0455 (Large Evap Leak) code will set only if the conditions outlined below are present before the testing starts. For example if the tank is full or nearly full, no test starts or if the car is moving no test starts. Believe that is to eliminate testing with the possibility of fuel sloshing around the tank or other variables that could lead to inconclusive or flawed test results.

During the test, a small amount of engine vacuum is applied inside the fuel tank that is commanded sealed airtight. The rate of vacuum decay is then measured. A small rate of vacuum decay will set a P0442 code, while a larger, faster vacuum leak will set a P0455 code. The attached Word documents from the FSM explain the tests in greater detail.

Vehicle speed = 0 mph
Engine speed at idle
Engine load less than 35%
MAP is greater than 40 kPa
Battery voltage is greater than 11.0 volts
ECT at engine startup is between 8C and 75C (46and 167F)
IAT is between 8C and 50C (46and 122F)
Long term fuel cells not cleared (if cleared, engine must run longer than 16 minutes and 45 ) Fuel level between 1.3 and 12.7 gallons (5-48 liters)
Altitude less than 9842 ft .
No battery voltage, ECM internal fault, ECT, EGR, EVAP purge control, EVAP vent control, fuel tank pressure, HO2S, IAC, MAP, misfire, TP or VSS DTCs have been set

When I replaced my heavy rusted pipes last spring, I did not find it to be a very difficult job.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=219877

Probably the toughest part was removing the old stuck on hoses from the pipes. Some penetrating oil and hose picks help. I went all out and purchased the entire fuel tank neck assembly and hoses - GM part 10382365. As mentioned, good used or reconditioned parts or just new Dorman metal pipes would cost much less.
Attached Files
File Type: doc P0442 FSM.doc (49.5 KB, 14 views)
File Type: doc P0455 FSM.doc (50.0 KB, 8 views)

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Old 08-14-2016, 01:35 PM   #8
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2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
2000 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Default Re: P0455 after P0442

That filler pipe looks very familiar. The small pipe corrodes through at the point where the chassis bracket is welded on. It is right behind the right rear wheel where it gets blasted with salt spray. I replaced mine with a used pipe, but the code didn't go away because the evap valve was stuck. I transferred the valve from the old pipe and all was fine. When this happens again, and it will, I will just bypass the small pipe with a piece of rubber hose. The part of the small pipe that goes up behind the plastic shield to the evap. valve doesn't rust nearly as fast.

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