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Old 06-30-2019, 11:51 PM   #21
Eiron
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTS350 View Post
Is there a specification without a conspiracy theory that you have confidence in?
Not sure how meeting CAFE requirements to earn environmental credits and avoid fees -- while at the same time earning licensing fees for your proprietary oil spec -- constitutes a conspiracy theory, but I'd say the ACEA sequences are the most comprehensive for engine protection.

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Old 07-01-2019, 07:48 AM   #22
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

I find it hard to muster the energy to be that concerned about anything over and above "good enough quality" for motor oil to be used in vehicles that are now worth less than a decent refrigerator.

Supertech synth seems to be OK and comes in somewhere between $3 and $4 a quart. Rotella T6 is a fantastic oil and comes in around $5/quart. Both are easy to find at your local Walmart. Coming in at slightly less than Rotella T6 is Delo 400 synthetic 5W-40 which is also available at Walmart and usually priced somewhere between Supertech and T6.

https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en...sae-5w-40.html

Would I just add oil instead of periodically changing it? No. But if I was someone who couldn't afford to fix or replace a Saturn that hoovers down oil, I could see that person just not caring and taking the easy way out.

shrug...

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Old 07-01-2019, 09:58 AM   #23
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiron View Post
This makes more sense to me, too. Is it price competitive to the Walmart oil?
Depends on how much you are watching every dollar.

Around here, SuperTech has been lowered to $15 for a 5 qt jug - $3 per quart, at the low end of what VUEmaniac mentioned. So, you could look at it either as "just a few bucks more a quart, not bad" or "holy crap, that stuff is almost twice as expensive - too rich for my blood"

Though, if you keep an eye out for sales and rebates, you can get better oil for the same price or cheaper. I recently used up the last of my $3/gallon T6

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=235427

Currently waiting their turn for the next oil change, Mobil 1 extended - after rebates, same price as the SuperTech

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Old 07-01-2019, 10:27 AM   #24
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

I just bought a 1.25 gal jug of Supertech Synthetic for my 2000. It was dirt cheap for a synthetic. Right now, I'm running the cheapest oil I can find... FVP from Menard's: 1.99 per quart! It's my first oil change to help clean things out, along with a Champion Labs filter I got for about $1 from Rockauto. I bought three of them for some short OCI's.

This first one will probably be 500 to 600 miles, unless I make that the second one and get this FVP out of there before starting to drive the car to work.

I've also got about 1/2 a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in there.

Isn't T6 only available in 10w40 or 15w40? That doesn't sound like a good idea for our rings. I thought about running T4, which comes in 10W30, and is what I put in my truck.

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Old 07-01-2019, 11:30 AM   #25
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

T4 has viscosity (cSt) of 12 @ 100C (published value)
https://www.zoro.com/rotella-motor-o...44/i/G6293975/

T6 has an actual viscosity of about 13 @ 100C (published value is 14.2)
http://www.dot.ga.gov/PartnerSmart/D...20Analysis.pdf

T6 is available in 0w40, 5w40. and 15w40

SAE says anything over 9.3 but < 12.5 is a 30 weight.

The low end of Xw40 is 12.5, high end <16.3

So, the T6 is at the low end of a 40 and just barely misses being a Xw30 oil.

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Old 07-01-2019, 02:22 PM   #26
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiron View Post
I'd say the ACEA sequences are the most comprehensive for engine protection.
Then you will be glad to know SuperTech synthetic 10W-30 is rated ACEA A3/B3.

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Old 07-01-2019, 05:39 PM   #27
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

OK guys, because oil brands are being discussed I would appreciate it if you bottom line it for me. Regardless of cost, what is recommended for use in my 1998 SL2 (216,000 miles).

Last oil change a Castrol GTX High Mileage 5W-30 Synthetic Blend Motor Oil was used. Prior to that I only used the regular Castrol and it was changed every 2500 to 3000 miles.

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Old 07-01-2019, 07:18 PM   #28
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

First off there is absolutely nothing in the engine that high mileage oil will help, it is a wast of money. High mileage oil has a large dose of seal sweller in it and no seal in saturn will be impacted by it.

If you are not consuming oil the a name brand 100% PAO synthetic is recommended and if you have an oil burner a name brand labeled low cost synthetic, that would be a group 3 oil.

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Old 07-01-2019, 09:58 PM   #29
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
Depends on how much you are watching every dollar.

Around here, SuperTech has been lowered to $15 for a 5 qt jug - $3 per quart, at the low end of what VUEmaniac mentioned. So, you could look at it either as "just a few bucks more a quart, not bad" or "holy crap, that stuff is almost twice as expensive - too rich for my blood"
True.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTS350 View Post
Then you will be glad to know SuperTech synthetic 10W-30 is rated ACEA A3/B3.
Really? Where did you find that info? 'Cuz I just checked Walmart's website and none of their oils are ACEA rated. In fact, half of them weren't even ILSAC rated. And, just so everyone's on the same page, a dexos rating is mutually exclusive to an ACEA A3/B3/B4 rating. Not that it matters to me. I'm not interested in running SuperTech in any of my cars.

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Old 07-01-2019, 11:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
First off there is absolutely nothing in the engine that high mileage oil will help, it is a wast of money. High mileage oil has a large dose of seal sweller in it and no seal in saturn will be impacted by it.

If you are not consuming oil the a name brand 100% PAO synthetic is recommended and if you have an oil burner a name brand labeled low cost synthetic, that would be a group 3 oil.
Thanks OldNuc for the direction.

I found a Mobile 1 that is not high mileage and there is a rebate available.
https://mobiloil.com/en

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Old 07-02-2019, 08:07 AM   #31
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

Mobil - 1 can be almost anything. The synthetic is also marked Extended Performance and the back of the bottle lists a max 15,000 mile change interval. All of the rest are some type of blend.

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Old 07-02-2019, 01:43 PM   #32
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Mobil - 1 can be almost anything. The synthetic is also marked Extended Performance and the back of the bottle lists a max 15,000 mile change interval. All of the rest are some type of blend.
Just trying to get it clear -
The regular Mobile 1 Advanced Full Synthetic (gray label), I was looking at, appears to be different than the Mobile 1 Advanced Full Synthetic Extended Performance (gold label). On the back of the bottle of Mobile 1 (gray label) it does show that for advanced protection to use the Extended Performance (gold label) for 15,000 mile protection.

I was looking for a synthetic oil that did not indicated high mileage engines as I thought you suggested. If I misunderstood you, I am sorry.


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Last edited by focusofheart; 07-02-2019 at 01:55 PM..

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Old 07-02-2019, 03:35 PM   #33
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by focusofheart View Post
Just trying to get it clear -
The regular Mobile 1 Advanced Full Synthetic (gray label), I was looking at, appears to be different than the Mobile 1 Advanced Full Synthetic Extended Performance (gold label). On the back of the bottle of Mobile 1 (gray label) it does show that for advanced protection to use the Extended Performance (gold label) for 15,000 mile protection.

I was looking for a synthetic oil that did not indicated high mileage engines as I thought you suggested. If I misunderstood you, I am sorry.
They are using marketing terms like "advanced" that don't have a real meaning, so it is easy to be confused.

Mobil 1 is a brand, and under the Mobil 1 are several different oils. That includes an oil that is made for "high mileage" engines (75k miles) - see attached pic and notice that this oil also says, "advanced full synthetic"

You don't need and wont benefit from this "high mileage" oil. The gold label is the one you want.

Some time ago, "synthetic" meant that the base stock for the oil was PAO (Group IV). Mobil sued Castrol for calling its Group III base stock oil "synthetic". Court looked at the definitions for the word synthetic in chemical reference manuals, and decided the Group III base oils fit - so Castrol was able to sell a Group III base stock oil as synthetic.

Because it was cheaper and the word "synthetic" is a winner in the marketing department, everyone was making Group III base oils with Synthetic on the label. Even Mobil started selling Group III oils as synthetic. While these are mostly good oils, they are generally not as good as Group IV base oils.

One of the things that suggests a Group IV oil, a good additive package, or both, is the extended drain interval.

For a while, "European Formula" or "Meets European Standards" or similar meant a Group IV because countries in Europe were not bound by the court ruling, and they decided only Group IV with extended drain intervals were allowable. Not sure if that is the case as I have not done a lot of oil looking lately

Mobil also sells an "annual protection" oil that is supposed to be good for 20k miles, which I am guessing is also a Group IV. No idea as to pricing though.

edit: just checked at Walmart.com, Extended is $26 for a 5-qt jug, the Annual is $36 - not including the available rebates
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Capture.JPG (29.2 KB, 2 views)

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Last edited by alordofchaos; 07-02-2019 at 03:45 PM..

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Old 07-02-2019, 04:05 PM   #34
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

Thank you for the clarification. I am grateful there are many on this forum with the knowledge and wisdom to give me direction.

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Old 07-02-2019, 05:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

Extended is a Gp3(MINERAL) and Gp-4(PAO) oil blend, correctly called a synthetic blend and the Annual is likely a 100% PAO synthetic.

The problem with Mobil-1 and the rest of the mane brand oils is they only offer a group-3 oil, a group 3 and group 4 oil blend, and maybe a group-4 oil. They are all called something synthetic so it is difficult to impossible to tell what they really are.

Last edited by OldNuc; 07-02-2019 at 05:36 PM..

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Old 07-03-2019, 01:43 PM   #36
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

So the original poster (CodyT) never checked in again, did he?

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Old 07-05-2019, 10:56 AM   #37
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Extended is a Gp3(MINERAL) and Gp-4(PAO) oil blend, correctly called a synthetic blend and the Annual is likely a 100% PAO synthetic.
Yep, was going to get back here to SF and mention that the Extended is likely a grp 3/ grp 4 blend, but caught a bad cold and have been out of it mentally the last few days, and you beat me to it.

I was thinking about buying a Mobil 1 filter to go with the Extended Performance oil - I do about 12k miles a year so after the change with Mobil 1 Extended plus an M1-209 filter, I would only be adding makeup oil for the next year.

Whilst searching to confirm the filter number, came across a similar discussion where OldNuc mentioned at the time (2010) that even the T6 is a grp 3/grp 4 blend

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=152982

That was in 2010 and another important point that is buried in there, oil companies can and do change the blend and content of their oils without notice to the consumer.
Quote:
The problem with Mobil-1 and the rest of the mane brand oils is they only offer a group-3 oil, a group 3 and group 4 oil blend, and maybe a group-4 oil. They are all called something synthetic so it is difficult to impossible to tell what they really are.
Yes, I was going to suggest that even the Annual is likely a blend of grp 3/ grp 4 oils, just higher on the grp 4 than the Extended. Hopefully it is enough to justify the $10 additional price.

I was thinking the Annual is a blend because it is "only" 20k. IIRC, the original 100% PAO Mobil 1 (at one time called, "M1 European Formula") was 25k miles. I'm thinking that with the right amount of Grp III blending into their Grp 4, they could lower their costs a lot but only lower the durability of their oil by 5k miles.

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Old 07-05-2019, 11:32 AM   #38
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Default Re: Add oil instead of changing oil

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Originally Posted by dummo View Post
So the original poster (CodyT) never checked in again, did he?
Probably just out adding oil without changing it at 3k. Or maybe changing it. Or wondering if any of the standards matter and still purchasing oil.

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