![]() |
|
![]() |
#1 | ||||
Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 291
2002 SL1
|
![]() My wife's 1999 SL2 is acting up. When I put it in park it will rev up a bit past 2,000 RPM before it settles back down. It also will rev a little when put in to drive, or reverse, but not that much.
Any idea what could be causing this? I'm the largest DIY novice you could know. It was in 2007 that people here helped me figure out how to remove my EGR sensor and fix it after getting a P0404 code on my 2002 SL1, so I don't know very much. All I can say is I don't want to have to take it to the dealership and get a $500 bill for the fix I could have probably done myself (with help from you guys). Any suggestions on what to look for first? Yesterday I put in some carb cleaner in the gas tank, and then filled it in hopes that it would resolve the problem. As I'm typing I also have disconnected the negative terminal on the battery hoping that after leaving it off for 15 minutes maybe it was just a computer problem that will be reset after it's been unplugged....... I know, I'm pulling at straws, but then I thought I'd post here. Thank you very much for your help. Any links to pictures on this website on how to do what you suggest would also be a lot of help! ![]() ... 2002 SL1, manual, SOHC (VIN 8) with 179,300 miles sold 8/29/14 (great car!). Former - 1994 SL 212,000 miles (great car!) ..... Step daughter HAD 1998 SL1, Wife HAD 1999 DOHC (VIN 7) SL2
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links |
![]() |
#2 | ||||
Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 291
2002 SL1
|
![]() Also I should mention that when I leave the car in park and I jam on the gas peddel really hard, I would expect it to rev up at a constant hum sound, but the car doesn't do that. When I hammer the gas at the highest level the RPM's go to a little over 4,000 and I get a...........
Rmmmmmmm, Rmmmmmm, Rmmmmmmmm, Rmmmmmmmmm Like it's choaking on something ever 1 second or so. ????? Thank you. ... 2002 SL1, manual, SOHC (VIN 8) with 179,300 miles sold 8/29/14 (great car!). Former - 1994 SL 212,000 miles (great car!) ..... Step daughter HAD 1998 SL1, Wife HAD 1999 DOHC (VIN 7) SL2
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | |||||
Master Member
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
2K seems a little high but it sounds to me like the Idle air control (IAC) is gummed up. I'd suggest you clean the throttle body. This series of videos show the process very well. Pay particular attention to that section at the end of the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApNTQs6GzcY ... 1997 - SL2, barebones, 161k, Auto - Rebuild complete and.. burnt a valve 20k later Arrgh! Purchased 114k 10/07 Added OEM CC
|
|||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | ||||
Super Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Exactly where does your temperature gauge read? Have you ever changed the ECTS?
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | |||||
Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 291
2002 SL1
|
![]() Quote:
ECTS. Not sure what that is, so I can probably guess it was never changed. Thank you. ... 2002 SL1, manual, SOHC (VIN 8) with 179,300 miles sold 8/29/14 (great car!). Former - 1994 SL 212,000 miles (great car!) ..... Step daughter HAD 1998 SL1, Wife HAD 1999 DOHC (VIN 7) SL2
|
|||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | ||||
Super Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Let me clarify. What does your temperature gauge read when the car is fully warmed up and you are driving at 35 to 45 mph with the heater blower shut off?
Take the Forum Jump at the bottom of this page and select How-To Library and read the first 3 posts. The ECTS is covered there and is probably most of your problem
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | ||||
Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 291
2002 SL1
|
![]() Ok. I read the stuff about the Engine Coolant Temp Sensor, but I'm wondering how this will cause the RPM's to be high when we put the car in park, especially when the engine is cold????? As I said I'm a newbie.
Cleaning the throttle body might be beyond what I can do with out having the car ending up being a paperweight when I'm done. Any other suggestions? Thank you again for all your help! ... 2002 SL1, manual, SOHC (VIN 8) with 179,300 miles sold 8/29/14 (great car!). Former - 1994 SL 212,000 miles (great car!) ..... Step daughter HAD 1998 SL1, Wife HAD 1999 DOHC (VIN 7) SL2
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | ||||
Master Member
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() ON's asking what your temp gauge reads. We're looking for something more than 1/4 on the dash gauge to rule out a thermostat problem.
Naw, the TB cleaning is really easy to do. Two bolts and it's off. ECTS, a little more involved but still not a big deal, the cracked resin one can lead to strange engine behavior . ... 1997 - SL2, barebones, 161k, Auto - Rebuild complete and.. burnt a valve 20k later Arrgh! Purchased 114k 10/07 Added OEM CC
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |||||
Super Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
As mentioned before, unless you're running a NASCAR racing engine, there's no point to revving a stock car engine as there's been a rev limiter to prevent the unknowing from doing irreparable damage to their engines if allowed to free rev when something lets go only to find out there is a limit when an engine blows up. Last edited by fdryer; 01-30-2009 at 05:59 AM..
|
|||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 | |||||
Junior Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Pasadena, MD
Posts: 10
1999 SW2
|
![]() Quote:
![]()
|
|||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 | ||||
Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 291
2002 SL1
|
![]() To answer the question about the temp guage............ It happens all the time, but yesterday I was driving about 35 mph and the temp guage on the dash never got to the 1/4 line from cold (we live in Michigan and it's cold here now). I probably did have the heater on at the time though.
I went to autozone and asked them to check the computer for codes (even though the SES light has not come on). They hooked up the computer and there were NO codes. The guy told me that because of all the sensors in a Saturn that if ANYTHING was going wrong that the computer should have held a code for it - but yet there were no codes present. He thought that it could possibly be something wrong with the computer????? I actually went there to get the coolant temp sensor and I was going to "attempt" to figure out how to install a new one. Needless to say I didn't buy anything after I heard what he had to say. Anyway, the car is MESSED UP! I changed the oil last Sunday and my wife said the problem started Monday morning on her way to work. I did add a bit (3/4 quart) too much oil before I realized after pouring 4 3/4 quarts in that I should check the stick. I saw that I was a bit over the "full" line on the stick, but since this car burns at least 1 qt of oil every 800 to 1,000 miles I didn't think being a little over the line was a huge deal. Could this "possibly" be my issue with the engine running funny? I believe in the past that the car must only take 4 qts of oil with an oil change. When I was driving yesterday and slowed down for a stop sign I felt like the car didn't want to slow down but instead speed up. Pushing on the brake actually didn't fell right (like the car was fighting against the brakes). Then of course when I put the vehicle in park the RPM's would increase to about 2,000 before they could calm back down (like a normal car would) and I would turn the vehicle off. Unfortunately we don't have a Saturn dealer in my city. When I've taken the car to the local GM dealer (twice in 3 years), it ends up sitting there for 2 days while they wait for parts to come in from the Saturn dealer, and I end up paying through the teeth!!!! I'm just at a total loss on this. I don't want my wife to get hurt or killed, and I don't have a clue if it's safe to let her drive her car???? I'd let her drive mine, but it's a stick and she doesn't know how to drive one, and is too scared to learn. So is the autozone guy right? If there was something wrong with any of the sensors the computer should have stored a code? Please help. Thank you very much!!!!!! ... 2002 SL1, manual, SOHC (VIN 8) with 179,300 miles sold 8/29/14 (great car!). Former - 1994 SL 212,000 miles (great car!) ..... Step daughter HAD 1998 SL1, Wife HAD 1999 DOHC (VIN 7) SL2 Last edited by 2002SaturnMan; 02-01-2009 at 05:14 AM..
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | ||||
Super Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() The Autozone Guy is flat wrong, and that is only the half of it.
Now, moving right along. The ECTS is probably bad. You need a new one. The dealer will charge well over 100.00 to replace it. You can do it in an hour if you have never done anything like this before. Proper preparation is the key. Take the forum jump at the bottom of this page and read the first 3 posts. The first one is an index and links to all of the richpin DIY videos. Then read the next 2 posts that deal with ECTS replacement. The part costs 10.00 and if you do not have the right tools, you need a 1/4" 13mm deep socket and you can buy that at Harbor Freight or Sears. Both stores have a 1/4" drive metric socket set with deep sockets. Be sure that they have a 13mm socket. The one thing that is not stressed in the How-To Library posts is that the ECTS connector also must be very carefully inspected for any corrosion in the connectors themselves. Buy a can of CRC Electrical Parts Cleaner (its in a red can) when you pick up the new ECTS. You can flush out the connector with this cleaner if it looks OK. If its green then it will have to be replaced. The extra oil is not the problem. If you have read the posts on the ECTS and watched the video then let the car cool off, release any pressure in the cooling system by opening and then closing the reservoir cap, and replace the ECTS. If a bit confused ask questions. The car is probably quite safe to drive but is a bit of a pain with the high idle. Turn the heater blower back to 2 and set the heat at just into the red and the engine will get warmer and the idle will come down a bit. Last edited by OldNuc; 02-01-2009 at 01:33 PM..
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 | ||||
Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 291
2002 SL1
|
![]() OldNuc - Thank you for your reply and vote of confidence. I'm going to closely read the 3 threads you mentioned and then head off to AutoZone to get the part.
Couple questions to start with......... It's a 1999 SL2 twin cam 16 valve. I believe when I stand on the drivers side of the vehicle and shine a flashlight under the plastic air intake (I think that's what you call it). I believe I can see the connector directly under the EGR Valve and it goes horizontally into the cylinder. The video is probably the: Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor R&R Saturn S-series http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC0U53w_Htk Ok I watched the video and it looks as easy as pie!!! But is it ever??? Not for me. 1. So I probably should remove the air intake thing (which I've done on my 2002 SL1 and that isn't a problem), right? That will give me better access to the ECTS under the EGR valve. 2. Do I really need the teflon tape as he showed in the video? I might have some around the house, I just need to check. I also watched the first video on how to replace the connector (which needs to be soldered) which would be more than I would be able to do. I will pray that mine isn't corroded (green) inside. 3. Where do you want me to spray the CRC Electrical parts cleaner? I'm assuming in the female end that the ECTS plugs into (the black top connector with the wires), right? How do I dry it out inside after flushing it? Or can I just plug it right in to the ECTS? 4. In the video he says that some coolant will come out of the hole where the old ECTS is at. Will it just keep flowing out until I put the new one in? Should I purchase a gallon of coolant incase I loose some? If so, with a stone cold engine - how to I determine how much to add? (The car has been in our garage all night and I'll do it in the next hour as soon as I return from the store). Thank you very much again for your help. I hope you are online right now. :-) ... 2002 SL1, manual, SOHC (VIN 8) with 179,300 miles sold 8/29/14 (great car!). Former - 1994 SL 212,000 miles (great car!) ..... Step daughter HAD 1998 SL1, Wife HAD 1999 DOHC (VIN 7) SL2
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | ||||
Super Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() received your PM and replied directly. Sounds like you should be good to go.
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 | |||||||||||||
Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 291
2002 SL1
|
![]() THIS DIDN'T SOLVE MY PROBLEM.
![]() [QUOTE=OldNuc] Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The cleaner goes into the 2 hole side of the connector. It will evaporate and it is a non conductor so absolute dry is not required. Being corrosion free is though. The pin openings in the plug are tapered on the open end and if they are clean the ECTS pins will make the connection. Quote:
... 2002 SL1, manual, SOHC (VIN 8) with 179,300 miles sold 8/29/14 (great car!). Former - 1994 SL 212,000 miles (great car!) ..... Step daughter HAD 1998 SL1, Wife HAD 1999 DOHC (VIN 7) SL2
|
|||||||||||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 | ||||
Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 291
2002 SL1
|
![]() Ok here's the update................
It took me longer to find a 13mm deep socket than to take the car apart and put it back together!!!! No Joke! Total time was under 30 minutes under the hood. Anyway, I just read your PM reply (after I finished the project). Thank you so much for all your help but............................. Remeber we bought the car used about 3 years (about 36,000 miles ago). Current mileage is 117,300. The car is acting a little better, but only 50% better. I looked inside of the connector and I could tell that it had been replaced (I could see where the 2 wires had been cut and spliced in the new connector. The inside of the connector was TOTALLY clean. No greens stuff or anything else! Also the sensor that I removed looks just like the one I just installed (brass) except that it had the red stuff on the threads that Richpin's said would be an OEM part - So that must have been replace in the past as well (assuming the original was plastic). I drove the car about 10 miles round trip, engine got warm (up to 1/4 on the dashboard temp guage). Car didn't seem to fight me when I pressed the brakes (50% of the time - but still did seem like it wanted to fight). RPM's go to a little less 2,000 when starting the car or putting it in park. But when I'm at a complete stop, the car is on, in drive and my foot on the brake - when I put it in park it still wants to rev up a little bit. From about 1,000 RPM's to almost 2,000 RPM's. BTW, I did use the teflon tape without problems, and didn't get the electronic cleaner stuff because the inside of the plug looked as clean as could be. So what's the next idea to try????? It's better, but still not right. Thank you so much for giving me the courage to change the ECTS. It was a total joke! I almost think it was easier to do than change the oil - especially since I didn't need to work from under the car! LOL!. So where to from here? Thank you again! ... 2002 SL1, manual, SOHC (VIN 8) with 179,300 miles sold 8/29/14 (great car!). Former - 1994 SL 212,000 miles (great car!) ..... Step daughter HAD 1998 SL1, Wife HAD 1999 DOHC (VIN 7) SL2 Last edited by 2002SaturnMan; 02-01-2009 at 05:27 PM..
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 | ||||
Super Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() The temperature should go to 3/8. How did they splice in the new connector? Crimp connectors or are the splices soldered? Run the heatup test with the car in park idling that I describe below and lets see what happens. You can check for a vacuum leak but based on the fact that the ECTS has been changed already I am leaning to something else.
Ok, well that s both the good and the bad of it. Does the temperature come up to 3/8 when you let the car sit and idle in park or neutral? If it does thats a good sign that the signal is getting to the PCM. Watch it sit and idle until the fan comes on. this should happen at a bit above 1/2. That will tell you that the ECTS is working. The next thing that will cause your problem is a vacuum leak. This could be nothing more than a stuck PCV valve so pull it out of the cam cover and put your thumb over the hole in the end of it. If the idle does not drop back to normal then its time to look for a vacuum leak. If you still have some electrical cleaner yiou can gently spritz tat along the joint between the head and intake right where the gasket is. If you have a leak the cleaner will seal it up and the idle will drop. You also want to check the hose from the intake to the brake booster and the PCV connector hose. Spray a bit of cleaner around ther joint between the throttle body and the intake. A failure to heat up to 3/8 when moving would indicate either a high resistance splice in the ECTS wiring or a failed thermostat or both.
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 | ||||
Super Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() The one-two punch that was never mentioned was not only to replace the ects but the thermostat, a new 195F one. What no one's putting together for most of these coolant sensor problems is that the coolant sensor only reads coolant temperatures to tell the PCM. If the thermostat is operating cooler than normal, the new coolant sensor is just reporting the correct temps but cooler than ideal operating conditions. Replace the thermostat and the engine should idle back down between 800-900rpm. The ects was only one issue and the thermostat is the other one that still affects engine operating conditions.
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 | ||||
Super Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Its not been missed...
![]()
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#20 | ||||
Super Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Seems to me it was missed..............
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
My 2002 Saturn SC1 idles at 2000 RPM while in park. There is also a knocking sound. | travisj027 | S-Series Tech | 7 | 02-02-2009 11:43 PM |
My 1999 SL-2 starts to whine at 2000 rpm | mvball3 | S-Series General | 4 | 11-24-2008 12:52 AM |
My sl1 revs to 2000 rpm when I put in park | Gnfanatic | S-Series Tech | 5 | 10-08-2008 01:59 PM |
Engine revs up to 2000-3000 rpm | ejmatus | S-Series Tech | 10 | 01-01-2008 06:23 PM |
Engine revs to 2000 RPMs when in park | ddanea | Ion General | 4 | 12-09-2005 02:22 PM |