Fujita dual filter cold air intake

[bronzestarvue]

Just traded in my 2006 VUE V6 AWD on a used 2007 dark blue Sky 5-speed, and was thinking of some easy mods.

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge about one of these Fujita dual-filter cold air intakes? I like the looks of the dual filter model, as opposed to the single filter, and would imagine it'd flow more cold air. I'm also thinking of replacing the stock muffler with a free-flow muffler, along the lines of Magnaflow or Flowmaster, but leave the stock tip for now. Does the stock Sky exhaust have anything between the cat and rear muffler, like a resonator?

Thanks

[bronzestarvue]

Here's a link to what this setup looks like:

http://www.hopupracing.com/fuduficoairi.html

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c..._1976_48736764

I think it'd look very cool under the hood of a Sky, and be more functional than a single filter setup.

Comments?

[Gerry Proctor]

The stock factory Sky intake is a better cold air intake than the aftermarket pieces and makes more horsepower than the aftermarket stuff. There are other Sky forums that prove this on the dyno. The same thing has been echoed here about CAIs by those few of us who know snake oil when we see it.

If you like the way it looks, then buy it because of that alone without any regard to the performance issue. You can justify is on looks, but not on performance.

[Sky Pilot]

Originally Posted by Gerry Proctor

The stock factory Sky intake is a better cold air intake than the aftermarket pieces and makes more horsepower than the aftermarket stuff. There are other Sky forums that prove this on the dyno. The same thing has been echoed here about CAIs by those few of us who know snake oil when we see it.

If you like the way it looks, then buy it because of that alone without any regard to the performance issue. You can justify is on looks, but not on performance.

How so? Not that I'm interested, just curious. Now, a nice free flowing cat back system, I might be interested in.

[Gerry Proctor]

The factory intake is not flow restricted. It isn't for most cars. The factory air inlet is also far forward and isolated from any doghouse heat. The aftermarket intakes aren't fussy about where they take in air -including radiant heat from the doghouse. So the aftermarket intake isn't taking in air any cooler than the factory piece and it's not flowing any more air than the engine is using with the factory piece.

A good flowing exhaust is where you should always start. An engine can not take in what it can't put out.

[bronzestarvue]

Originally Posted by Gerry Proctor

The factory intake is not flow restricted. It isn't for most cars. The factory air inlet is also far forward and isolated from any doghouse heat. The aftermarket intakes aren't fussy about where they take in air -including radiant heat from the doghouse. So the aftermarket intake isn't taking in air any cooler than the factory piece and it's not flowing any more air than the engine is using with the factory piece.

A good flowing exhaust is where you should always start. An engine can not take in what it can't put out.

I'm not shooting the messenger here, but why then do setups like the K&N CAI show dyno runs that indicate increases in hp and torque over a stock setup? I realize, in the case of my VUE, most of the hp increase was in the higher rpms, but still, it was an increase. When I look at that dual filter Fujita setup, it looks like those filters are just as far forward, if not more so, than the stock airbox inlet, so they've gotta be getting some cold air from the front? Also, the tubes are smooth, not the accordion-style flex tubing that the stock setup has, which would cause the airflow to be pretty turbulent?

I replaced the stock muffler on my Sky with a Goerlich free-flow muffler from a local shop, and kept the stock tip. Didn't want to change it too much, at least not on the second day of owning it, lol! They charged me $250 for the muffler, piping, and labor to install everything. Took the guy about two and a half hours to do it, so I figure I got my money's worth. It sounds nice, especially when you get on it, but when you're just cruising along, it's barely noticeable in the cabin. I had a guy in a WRX throw some revs alongside me on my way back to the base, lol! Guess I'll have to get used to that...!

[Sky Pilot]

Originally Posted by bronzestarvue

I replaced the stock muffler on my Sky with a Goerlich free-flow muffler from a local shop, and kept the stock tip. Didn't want to change it too much, at least not on the second day of owning it, LOL! They charged me $250 for the muffler, piping, and labor to install everything. Took the guy about two and a half hours to do it, so I figure I got my money's worth. It sounds nice, especially when you get on it, but when you're just cruising along, it's barely noticeable in the cabin. I had a guy in a WRX throw some revs alongside me on my way back to the base, LOL! Guess I'll have to get used to that...!

I'm inclined to try something more free flowing, my only concern is that I don't want my Sky sounding like a "fart" pipe off a "ricer".

[Gerry Proctor]

Originally Posted by bronzestarvue

I'm not shooting the messenger here, but why then do setups like the K&N CAI show dyno runs that indicate increases in hp and torque over a stock setup? I realize, in the case of my VUE, most of the hp increase was in the higher rpms, but still, it was an increase. When I look at that dual filter Fujita setup, it looks like those filters are just as far forward, if not more so, than the stock airbox inlet, so they've gotta be getting some cold air from the front? Also, the tubes are smooth, not the accordion-style flex tubing that the stock setup has, which would cause the airflow to be pretty turbulent? ...

Who is doing the testing and where are the results being reported? Tuner shops, like RPi, that have no ties to the manufacturers are reporting no gains in power and in some cases, power losses as well as no difference to a measured increases in intake air temperature. People like them because they add bling and make the intake sound louder, but this doesn't translate into measured power increases, except in aftermarket marketing and advertising.

You can't put the air intake any further foward than the factory system unless you're willing to cut a big hole in the grill/bumper. Have a look. The factory intake is inches behind the grill.

The smoothness of the tubes and tube size gets into the science of flow dynamics. You have surface area and boundry layers that play into it, but I'm not qualified to have an in-depth discussion on those issues beyond what I've read in technical literature. I get lost in the math but understand the principles conveyed to the degree that someone without a degree in CFD can. None the less, if real independent testing shows no improvements and the improvements also don't show up on the track, then you'd have to go with the practical evidence that the factory intake is getting the job done.

Again, they look nice and make the engine sound more powerful, which is why a lot of people buy them. I'm not trying to convince you not to buy one. It's your money and you can spend it however you want. Lord knows I've peed away a lot of money on performance parts in my early days that did nothing (big carburetors, ignition systems, intake manifolds...) so I'm hardly one to throw the first stone.

So now I would ask you to think critically. What affect do the corregations in the factory pipe have on air flow? Have you ever seen pipe or hose with the corregated surface used on a real racing engine? The aftermarket wants you to believe that these are bad things, but are they? Also, what affect does pipe or hose diameter and length have on airflow? Is bigger always better?

[bronzestarvue]

Good discussion on this subject so far. You raise a good point, in that one would expect K&N's marketing to show that their products increase hp and torque. You're right in that an independent test would have the more credible results, since they have no vested interest in the outcome. Like you, I'm no automotive engineer, nor do I know anything about fluid dynamics. But, common sense tells me that for the same length of intake tubing, one would prefer smooth versus rippled. Just like a dual-tube non-adjustable strut tower bar should be stronger than a single tube adjustable one.

As for the muffler, I didn't want mine to sound like a wet fart either, like you get with all those ricers with the coffee can mufflers sticking out the back end. The Goerlich one I'm using (http://www.goerlichs.com/product_sub...s_xlerator.asp) gives it a deep tone, not raspy, and definitely not wet fart sounding. With the stock tip still on there, folks may not even know the stock muffler's been replaced. If I get tired of the sound, I can always have the shop install a glasspack resonator, to take some of the edge off the sound. But for now, she's good to go...

[gary p]

It certainly looks cool, but no normally-aspirated 2.4 liter engine that only revs to ~7000 rpm needs two air filters that size to acheive peak performance.

[sky4her]

I just bought a Fujita CAI for the Sky and I LOVE it!

I'm not going to pretend I'm a guru when it comes to horsepower, dyno charts.... I know my way around the garage enough to get me by. I feel a more even pull in power after it was installed. It now feels like it'll get out of it's own way now.

There was a comment on another board about how far you should insert the pipe into the air filter to maximize your air flow. I made sure I was in spec before I tightened the clamp. I couldn't be hapier, and the sound is nice and low without that "fart can" sound.

[Sky Pilot]

Originally Posted by sky4her

I just bought a Fujita CAI for the Sky and I LOVE it!

I'm not going to pretend I'm a guru when it comes to horsepower, dyno charts.... I know my way around the garage enough to get me by. I feel a more even pull in power after it was installed. It now feels like it'll get out of it's own way now.

There was a comment on another board about how far you should insert the pipe into the air filter to maximize your air flow. I made sure I was in spec before I tightened the clamp. I couldn't be happier, and the sound is nice and low without that "fart can" sound.

Did you install it in a Redline? Also, keep in mind that unless you can expel the exhaust to the same extent you bring it in, you're at an impasse, meaning you really won't see any appreciable increase in performance.

[killingtangos]

It all means nothing with out a tune. Opening the intake and exhaust is a waste of time with out custom tune IMHO.
At least that is the way it is with all other vehicles. Am I wrong?

[bronzestarvue]

Originally Posted by killingtangos

It all means nothing with out a tune. Opening the intake and exhaust is a waste of time with out custom tune IMHO.
At least that is the way it is with all other vehicles. Am I wrong?

IMO, I don't think adding a CAI and/or changing the muffler would require a custom tune. The car's ECM should be able to handle those minor mods. If someone did changes to the injectors, ECM module, installed a forced induction system (turbo or super-charge), or other extensive changes, then yes, a custom tune would be in order. A CAI and/or muffler mod are more like a typical Stage 1-type of upgrade, which normally doesn't require a custom tune. Stage 2 and 3 upgrades usually do (at least that was the rule of thumb when I had my SRT-4).

[killingtangos]

Both my V8 Ford and V6 Honda Accord LOST hp after I did intake and exhaust mods. 1hp for one and 3hp for the other. That is with disconnecting the battery for 5 min and allowing the vehicles to re-learn the fuel mixtures. How do I know? I had free access to a Dino and a tuner (pays to be a Mason!) Anyway, I was proving a point to a friend that the adds for the mod add ons are full of crap. Like the new spark plugs they have now. Iridium gives zero gain and is a waste of money. So is platinum from a performance stand point. Old copper plugs with two ignition points are guaranteed to give off more spark then all the rest. The others just last longer. They give no hp boost of any kind. Now if I go over to someones house and pull their plugs. Then pun in some junk like iridium of course their car will perform better. They have new plugs in place of the old ones! The only thing that will give you better ignition then copper is gold (it may melt)But I digress. I was just pointing out that the people who make these add ons are also re-tuning the motors in ideal conditions to make their dino runs show more hp and torque.

Now that hp loss is a FACT. However...... I should mention that with the tune I put in colder plugs, a colder thermostat, a larger MAF, and bumped up the timing. That required me to run at least 92 oct fuel at all times. I wound up with 19 more hp on the ford an 11 more hp on the Honda.

But still I had a hp drop after adding the zip tube, larger TB, larger air box/CAI, full dual stainless apex exhaust, and polished phylum.

I must qualifi the above with the fact I know next to nothing about Saturns. This is all new to me so if I am wron please point me in the right direction like you all have in the past.

[Sky Pilot]

Hmm, a loss of 1 or even 3 HP could simply be an anomaly, especially on a chassis dyno. Keep in mind, I learned this with my SS Camaro, that most of a FIPK's benefit is based on the unrestricted increased volume of air entering the intake while you're driving, i.e., because you're actually forcing more air past or through your FIPK; the faster the speed, the more air. But on a static dyno, while you may see a few anomalous blips in HP and TQ, you likely wouldn't see any real change because you have no way of duplicating that (forced) air flow. If you believe that the new intake is totally unrestricted, then I'd suggest going back to the dyno, remove the intake totally (don't worry, it's a controlled environment), and then make a few passes with the hood open and a very large fan blowing air towards the intake. This would get you close, but still not as close as you would be with the forced air from driving. Also remember that you need to match the volume of air exiting (exhaust) as the volume entering (intake).

[killingtangos]

You are right about the air but that is not really a factor until like 70 mph. That fan they use for the dino is really to help cool. That is about it.

[bronzestarvue]

Posted a thread on the Saturn Sky forum about my mods to the Fujita dual-filter system. So here's some pics of the latest version:


Ram air parts – small (flex ducting, 3” x 8’, $8; can of cooking spray, $2; Uni foam filters #UP-4245, $16 each; PlumbQwik #P1056-215, 2” to 1 ½”, $5 each; 2 ¼” hole saw, $8)

(inlet 1)

(inlet 2)

(hoses 1)

(hoses 2)

(hoses 3)


Here's the URLs in case the pics don't display:

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...=45396&cat=500
Ram air parts – small (flex ducting, 3” x 8’, $8; can of cooking spray, $2; Uni foam filters #UP-4245, $16 each; PlumbQwik #P1056-215, 2” to 1 ½”, $5 each; 2 ¼” hole saw, $8)

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...=45398&cat=500 (inlet 1)

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...=45399&cat=500 (inlet 2)

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...=45400&cat=500 (hoses 1)

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...=45401&cat=500 (hoses 2)

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...=45402&cat=500 (hoses 3)

[killingtangos]

Lots of bends and the surface of drier hose is not exactly smooth. But, if it works.... Have some numbers or a dino sheet? I would do this mod if I had any indication it will work.
You have shown lots of ingenuity there!

[bronzestarvue]

Originally Posted by killingtangos

Lots of bends and the surface of drier hose is not exactly smooth. But, if it works.... Have some numbers or a dino sheet? I would do this mod if I had any indication it will work.
You have shown lots of ingenuity there!

A friend of mine at work has a modded Mustang Cobra, and says he knows where I can get some dyno time, to the tune of $100 an hour. Would be interesting to see some dyno numbers on the stock Fujita setup, and this modded version that I've done.

However, as has already been mentioned, it'd be hard to replicate the "ram air" if the car isn't moving. But getting some dyno numbers while the car is stationary could provide some unbiased data. Even though the ducting has a couple of bends and interior ripples, once it gets up to the Uni foam filters at the "Y" pipe, it'll be smooth sailing from that point down to the throttle body.

Maybe after the holidays, I'll have to pick his brain on that dyno contact...