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Old 02-10-2006, 12:08 AM   #1
defy69
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2003 ION-1 Sedan
Default supercharge?

is it possible to supercharge a Ion Sedan? other than mounting the charger and aligning the belt how different is the sedan from the RL's?

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Old 02-10-2006, 12:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: supercharge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by defy69
is it possible to supercharge a Ion Sedan? other than mounting the charger and aligning the belt how different is the sedan from the RL's?
front ends are the same will fit fine.

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Old 02-10-2006, 12:39 AM   #3
jentzsch23
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Default Re: supercharge?

so the RL supercharger will fit on aa ion sedan or QC? i have a 04 sedan. will it fit on mycar? if so, what kind of mods are needed to get it to all work out? because you have to intercooler to worry about and al the other piping....

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Old 02-10-2006, 10:45 AM   #4
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Default Re: supercharge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by defy69
is it possible to supercharge a Ion Sedan? other than mounting the charger and aligning the belt how different is the sedan from the RL's?

mechanically wise: drivetrain & suspension.

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Old 02-10-2006, 10:49 AM   #5
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Default Re: supercharge?

DSL...what does yur loat post mean..... a little confused

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Old 02-10-2006, 12:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: supercharge?

A Redline has a different suspension, a different engine, a different transmission, different interior, different bumpers and fender skirts. That's what he meant, I would assume.

If you want a supercharger, call up a Chevy dealership and ask them about part number 17800003. Tell them you have an Ion and ask if it will work.

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Old 02-10-2006, 01:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: supercharge?

I dont see why everyone asks for the redline supercharger all the time. SPeed mafia has a kit that they sell which has proven to work very reliably and also has great customer service. I would order through them, i imagine you can get more power out of it too. i dunno.

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Old 02-10-2006, 04:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: supercharge?

17800003 is the PN# for GM's Ecotec supercharger KIT. Contact a local GM Performance parts fellow for more information.

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Old 02-10-2006, 05:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: supercharge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfatalis100
I dont see why everyone asks for the redline supercharger all the time. SPeed mafia has a kit that they sell which has proven to work very reliably and also has great customer service. I would order through them, i imagine you can get more power out of it too. i dunno.
Well Thank you Dcfatalis100....

As much as i love my design i keep all my options open i would never want to sell something to someone that does not want it (leave that to the used car sales reps)...But again to answer your question....

The 2.0L and 2.2L are the same block just that the 2.0L (redline) has forged internals and lower compression and stroke...So if you really wanted you can take a 2.0L SC kit from a Redline, and bolt it on to the 2.2L car but remember that kit makes 12PSI and above depending on pulley size the 2.2L top ring is a bit higher (not much) to the 2.0L piston (forged) is a bit lower (not much) which helps with blow by and so the 2.2L was really not ment for boost but it can handle 5-7psi pretty safe.

also THX712517 said the --->17800003 is the PN# for GM's Ecotec supercharger KIT. Contact a local GM Performance parts fellow for more information. His information is correct it is the kit they use to install on the redline as well from what i have gathered...

But rember this as well with any turbo, Roots SC or My SuperCharger kit tuning is a must!

Also the redline dues have the upgrades of the suspension and tranny for the extra hp but the 2.2L will hold it fine

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Old 02-10-2006, 06:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: supercharge?

Dude, saying the 2.2 wasn't meant for boost is like saying Santa Claus is a skinny whiny blonde. It'll take monster boost, you just have to build it up right. Look for GM Tuner Source, they have the Ecotec Cookbook in PDF format, you can just go through the book and order what you need.

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Old 02-10-2006, 08:37 PM   #11
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Default Re: supercharge?

Hell for the price that GM asks for the S/C kit, you can get a Turbo kit from gude or twistec probably cheaper even. Call them for details...as everyone has said, it's all about how you build and tune. If you consistently run 12 or higher psi on a motor that wasn't build for it...you are going to break something. If you are going to 'charge the 2.2 Ecotec (turbo OR super) you seriously need to look into building the bottom and top end as well as finding a fuel management computer. Do some more research...exhaust all the resources you know before you attempt to do any mods. Start small and work your way up. Call up Bates Engineering, they build Ecotecs exclusively for racing. They can help you get an idea of how to build up the 2.2 for boost.

I have built 2 engines of my own and helped a friend with his build and I'm still an idiot in the world of cars. With my car I am starting small. Just picked up some of my suspension stuff and until I get ALL of the components to my engine build I'm not even THINKING of throwing boost on it. Just my way of thinking...sorry about the book mates.

ECOtec's FOREVER, WERD <drops the mic and walks away>

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Old 02-11-2006, 01:11 AM   #12
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Default Re: supercharge?

The stock 2.2 is NOT meant for boost, and can only handle so much without blowing up. Yea you can beef up the engine, but you can do that with any car engine. The ecotec is a very strong motor and if done right can handle tremendous amounts of forces, which is what differs from other motors.

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Old 02-12-2006, 12:30 AM   #13
jentzsch23
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Default Re: supercharge?

adding this to an ion, would you need to do anything eles to the engine to make sure it does not blow!

Saturn Motorsports Ion Turbo Kit
"New Arrival" Saturn Motorsports now offers a high output turbo kit for all Saturn Ion models. The turbo kit dynode an impressive 249 horse power.


Kit comes equipped with a TD04H15T turbo,
cast iron exhaust manifold and elbow,
carbon fiber air box, engine management
system, air to air intercooler, all silicone hoses and
clamps and detailed fitting instructions.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ion turbo.JPG (34.0 KB, 22 views)

Last edited by jentzsch23; 02-12-2006 at 12:35 AM..

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Old 02-12-2006, 01:31 AM   #14
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Default Re: supercharge?

You don't HAVE to do anything to the internals IF you don't want to. If you try to run anything more than 8psi on a stock motor I wouldn't recommend it UNLESS you do more to shore up the internals. There are some people on this forum and other Ecotec forums that claim they have ran it up to 12psi consistently and "without incident"...truth of the matter is...it's only a matter of time before you toast something and have to shell out EVEN MORE money on something that could have been preempted.

I dunno about you, but I would rather spend the $2500 or so on the internals and ECU NOW, rather than spend another $3000 on a crate motor + the internals and ECU that you will use the second time b/c you weren't thinking about preserving the integrity of the motor first time.

Basically what I am saying in so many words is..."As long as you don't exceed more than 8 psi, you should be okay. As they have been tested by most companies to a safe level of 6-8 psi...or at least in my experience calling the companies most of them have said this. If you want to go higher you WILL need to upgrade the bottom end in order to compensate for the higher amount of boost.

Seriously listen to what people are saying. If you don't believe us, call the company yourself...they will tell you what's up. Any Kit's manufacturer will tell you the specifics of the kit's capabilities and what the motor can withstand before you have to take it to the next level. Sorry to come off as an ***** but I know people don't like covering the same questions over and over. Do some research for yourself and DISCOVER the information that is available to us ECOtec tuners. There's a good bit. Once you have exhausted everything possible then start asking your peers. Hell TROLL the forums here, there are so many questions that are EXACTLY the same as what you asked initially it's mind boggling. Chances are they answer a good bit of your questions too. =)

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Old 02-12-2006, 01:40 AM   #15
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Default Re: supercharge?

i have tried trolling the borads and unless i am an dork, i can not find anything, or at least not as fast as i can posting. thanks for taking your time to help me.

what psi will this kit put out?

any good sits you would recomend on eco tunning?

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Old 02-12-2006, 04:18 AM   #16
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Default Re: supercharge?

I would probably say up to about 12 psi. www.gude.com has a kit that is good up to 16psi I believe. Their tests show that 249hp is achieved at 8 psi. The max on the gude kit is 16psi and at that point your turbo will be struggling with efficiency problems.

Just one question. What HP goal are you going for...you seem to be looking for more boost...more boost. Much more than anything above 350hp will be nigh unstreetable if you haven't done more to your car, drivetrain wise.

howstuffworks.com is how I got a good start in the car information...TONS of info there. In the words of Johnny 5...INPUT...INPUUUUUT

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Old 02-12-2006, 05:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: supercharge?

From GM itself, the connecting rods will hold until 283 horsepower, which is a 143 horsepower increase over stock. However, other forums have been noticing that they can get away with increased boost and making more than 300 horsepower, so it's possible that GM's being conservative a little bit and wanting to make money by having you purchase new rods.

The intake manifold can flow enough air for 350 horsepower. The crankshaft is good for 500 horsepower plus, and the only reason they put in a new one was to destroke the engine so it could rev higher. At around 650 horsepower, I believe, they had to ring the block to prevent the cylinder walls from distorting. So, just from looking at the information on http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource/html/home.htm , I think you can safely make 450 horsepower with some new connecting rods and fuel management.

In a street car that's driven daily, however, I would say 250-280 is plenty, because with the Ion's unequal length halfshafts (not an issue with the Redline) you're going to be fighting insane torque steer.

And finally, you can purchase GM PN#17800003 from an outside source for $2560. Gude's turbo kit is $3600. SMS's turbo is $4999. The supercharger will, with intake, throttle body, header, exhaust, and tuning, get you 250 horsepower (more if you go to a smaller pulley), and the turbos will all get you up there too.

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Old 02-12-2006, 08:36 PM   #18
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Default Re: supercharge?

I believe its the pistons that give away first in the bottom end.

Tuning is just as if not more important that the supposed strength of the bottom end. I'm pretty sure there is not a set # that things start to fail, just a range and when approaching that range tuning is going to be the #1 factor in the life of the bottom end. Some guys are able to run higher amounts of boost because they have spot on tuning.

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Old 02-12-2006, 10:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: supercharge?

I beg to differ on the Equal length half shafts. When I was driving a Redline back in June/July (had it for 6 days...don't ask lol) I dropped the clutch several times around 3000, 3500, and 4000 and got plenty of torque steer as it's one of the inherent flaws of a FWD car. Even with equal length half-shafts there will be a bit of torque steer.

For my build I'm definately changing out my bottom end components. Even though I'm only shooting for 325hp it's one of those things that will give me piece of mind. If you want to run 10 or 12 psi on stock internals have at it friends. Crank is good for 500hp, Pistons for 300hp, Sleeves for 500hp, Rods for 250hp according to the ECOtec build book.

And I quote, "Power levels of up to 400hp can be achieved with the installation of connection rods and pistons, a new head gasket and head bolts, adjustable cam gears and a NO2 system or turbo kit. No modifications to the head, block main girdle, or crank are required." PG 41 GM Sport Compact Performance Build Book.

With the Super...yes you can produce as much as these turbo kits presented. However bear in mind that when you change out the pulley for a smaller one you have a chance of getting dangerously close to the s/c's "surge range" where it does an effective job of just beating the **** outta the air and not really doing much AND making it uber hot under the hood. I think that GM S/C kit only puts out 8 psi anyhow.

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Old 02-13-2006, 02:09 AM   #20
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Default Re: supercharge?

so the GM tuner guide is based on the cobalt, i know that they are similar. so the supercharge kit comes with everything right? so i could buy it and after install be on the road ready to go correct? what about the air intake? is that a stock set up, as it were, or does it come with a air filter box...?

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