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Old 11-28-2009, 11:45 PM   #1
aa4lr
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1999 SL2
Question Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

After putting it off for many months, I finally went out and cleaned the throttle body on my 95 SC1. There was about 1/16" of dark black goo on the back side of the throttle. Cleaned it all up nicely, and the IACV as well. I also removed the EGR and cleaned it up. Put it all together and the car starts up very nicely.

However, the idle seemed high, at least higher than previously. After warming up, I took a short test drive. Sometimes idle would come down to 1200, sometimes it seemed to stay around 1700 with the car in motion. However, a couple of times when the car was stopped, it worked it's way down to the 750-800 that has been normal for the past year.

Don't know what to think about this -- could I have done something to the IACV? It doesn't seem like a normal manifold leak, since it would never have gone down to 800 rpm then.

Thoughts?

...
Bill Coleman
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:57 PM   #2
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

Did you use a nice new gasket or recycle the old one? Did you manage to pull the vacuum line off of the purge solenoid?

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Old 11-29-2009, 12:00 AM   #3
Phyzik sl2
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Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

there might still be some tb cleaner somewhere, mine had a few issuses after i cleaned it but went away after about 3-5 mi

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Old 11-29-2009, 12:54 AM   #4
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Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

As always.. there's always the question of if you've you've replaced your ECTS with a brass one/checked the connector and what's the normal operating temperature on the engine temp gauge? Admittedly, none of those related symptoms should have changed with a simple TB cleaning but it's worth mentioning again..

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Old 11-29-2009, 03:08 AM   #5
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2002 SL1
Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

Try resetting the computer by removing power cable for 30 minutes. I usually disconnect the ground or pull the fuse to avoid the radio theft prevention either way. I have had this happen a couple times. I also like to blow compressed air through the egr passages. Double check all your connections make sure they are clean and tight.

...
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:41 AM   #6
Nels
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Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

I would look for a leak. When I reinstalled my TB after cleaning I inadvertently got the gasket out of position on the lower bolt of the TB and did not notice it until I started the engine. The 'idle' shot up to about 3500 rpm! I investigated and found the leak, fixed it, and all is well. My leak was rather large, causing the racing idle, but you may have a small leak causing a 'flutter' (my word - not a tech. term) in your idle. A new gasket is $2.89. I hope you are using one. You might get a similar symptom if the gasket is leaking on the EGR. That gasket is under $3 as well. And as has been suggested, reset the PCM by pulling the PCM fuse or the neg. battery cable for a few minutes.

...
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

To amplify a bit on computer reset procedure. Just remove the PCM B fuse that is located in the engine compartment fuse box for a couple of minutes and replace it. Do this with the key off. This will reset the PCM.

Removing the battery cable is an excellent way to induce battery cable connection quality problems and should only be done to allow battery replacement.

The idea is to minimize the probability of inducing new problems.

As another note. Cleaning the throttle body does not require a PCM reset.

When you shut the car off the IAC is set to the startup position by the PCM. And when you first start the car up the IAC is driven to the commanded RPM by the PCM from any other IAC position. If you did not get all the carbon off of the IAC seat and pintle you can end up with enough bypass leakage to have a high idle. However, if the PCM commanded RPM exceeds the actual RPM by 100 or greater the SES light will be illuminated unless it is a vacuum leak.

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Old 11-29-2009, 10:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Did you use a nice new gasket or recycle the old one? Did you manage to pull the vacuum line off of the purge solenoid?
I recycled the old ones on both the EGR and Throttle Body. They looked like they were in good shape.

Purge solenoid? Where's that? I don't think I pulled off any vacuum lines at all.

...
Bill Coleman
2001 Saturn SC2 Auto (3/13-...) "Yellow"
1999 Saturn SL2 Auto (11/09-...) "White"
1995 Saturn SC1 Manual (9/08-...) "Gold"
1994 Saturn SL1 Auto (7/94-1/04) 144,000 miles "Green"

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Old 11-29-2009, 10:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

Quote:
Originally Posted by off-track View Post
As always.. there's always the question of if you've you've replaced your ECTS with a brass one/checked the connector and what's the normal operating temperature on the engine temp gauge? Admittedly, none of those related symptoms should have changed with a simple TB cleaning but it's worth mentioning again..
ECTS and thermostat were replaced last year. When fully warm, temp gauge settles on 1/2, which is right for an '95.

...
Bill Coleman
2001 Saturn SC2 Auto (3/13-...) "Yellow"
1999 Saturn SL2 Auto (11/09-...) "White"
1995 Saturn SC1 Manual (9/08-...) "Gold"
1994 Saturn SL1 Auto (7/94-1/04) 144,000 miles "Green"

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Old 11-29-2009, 10:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

On the top of the throttle body there is a clip that holds either 1 or 2 vacuum lines. One goes to the fuel pressure regulator for 97 and older and for 98 and newer there is 1 line that drops down between #3 and #4 intake runner to the purge solenoid on the block above the starter. You had to take the clip and line(s) off to remove the throttle body. The line slips off the purge solenoid real easy....

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Old 11-29-2009, 11:42 PM   #11
Tom of Detroit
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Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

A vacuum leak does sound like the most likely culprit. But along with checking for vacuum leaks, make sure the throttle damper is free to completely close. Could the throttle cable have picked up a twist and bind? If you have cruise control could the mechanism be dragging somewhere?

If you removed the damper from the shaft make sure it's not hitting the throttle body bore.

After that I'm plumb out of ideas.

-Tom of Detroit

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Old 11-30-2009, 06:08 AM   #12
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Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

Quote:
Originally Posted by aa4lr View Post
I recycled the old ones on both the EGR and Throttle Body. They looked like they were in good shape.

Purge solenoid? Where's that? I don't think I pulled off any vacuum lines at all.
I would strongly recommend replacing the TB gasket. I did the same thing, cleaned the TB and reused the old gasket, and I still had a slightly high idle. I got a new gasket, and that cured the idle. For less than $3 it is worth giving it a try.

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Old 11-30-2009, 01:14 PM   #13
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Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

Doesn't the PCM remap its start idle position along with its running idle position on occasion to account for various changes in the environment/ engine condition? As the engine gets older and the compression starts to drop things change which would need to be accounted for by the PCM. Resetting the PCM would put it back to default settings. That may be closer to where it needs to be (for learning purposes). Accounting for the extra air flowing through the idle air servo/control now that it is clean, would make it have a higher idle and then reel it in to get to target idle.

If wasn't able to relearn some of the parameters and setpoints............

I would agree to change the gaskets with new ones though, as OldNuc says eliminating extra variables makes troubleshooting a lot easier and doesn't induce new problems into a set of circumstances your already scratching your head on.

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Old 11-30-2009, 01:45 PM   #14
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Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

It will correct for a running condition but the start point is fixed. ths is why some cars zing up to 2k and then immediately drop to the 1200-1400 range when cold. Its a function of the mechanical stop on the throttle plate and the IAC initial positioning.

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Old 11-30-2009, 04:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

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It will correct for a running condition but the start point is fixed. ths is why some cars zing up to 2k and then immediately drop to the 1200-1400 range when cold. Its a function of the mechanical stop on the throttle plate and the IAC initial positioning.
Yea, I kind of remember the dealer techs saying don't touch that screw (throttle stop) we're not quallified.

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Old 11-30-2009, 07:20 PM   #16
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Thumbs Up Re: Idle oddity after cleaning throttle body

Well, it looks like this was a false alarm. Driving into work today, and the idle is right where it is supposed to be -- about 1000-1100 while in motion with the clutch in, and 700-800 stopped.

Could there was some residual cleaner on the IACV that was inhibiting its proper action.

Seems to be working. I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks for all the suggestions.

...
Bill Coleman
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