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Old 02-22-2009, 09:21 PM   #1
cocacolacowboy
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Default still running funny

94 sl2 auto
car want's to stall at about 1800-2000 rpm in park or driving. RPM will just about drop right off when i bring the RPM around the 1800 mark or so while in park. While driving it surges. A little higher or lowwer RPM all seems fine.
-changed out coil packs no change
-plugs and wires no change went with NGK G Power and changed both coolant sensors and checked wires and conectors
-cleaned out egr valve
-changed out TPS
-New T Stat and fresh coolant
-also did oil and filter change, Trans fluid and filter, even changed the wiper blades. LOL
Any thought on what you'd look at next

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Old 02-22-2009, 10:00 PM   #2
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1998 SC2
Default Re: still running funny

I suspect that this is your problem. This is copied directly from the NGK website. Notice that the first stared line clearly states that you have installed PLATINUM tip plugs. Fine wire electrode plugs from any maker will not last in a waste spark system. The correct plug for your application is NGK BKR5ESA-11, and you probably also now need a fresh set of wires to go with them.

G-PowerŪ

Improved Fuel Efficiency, Lower Emissions, Quicker Starts.

* Fine platinum tip reduces required voltage
* Extremely durable under high heat
* Trivalent Metal Plating - superior anti-corrosion and anti-seizing properties
* Faster starts and quicker acceleration
* Better fuel economy and lower emissions
* Best platinum spark plug at an economical cost

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Old 02-22-2009, 10:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: still running funny

problem was present before any repairs and is still present

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Old 02-23-2009, 01:03 AM   #4
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Default Re: still running funny

It does sound like the R-C timing could be problem.
Strongly suggest use conventional (not Pt) plugs.

If the fuel filter has a lot of miles , it might help to renew , but the fact that the problem tapers off at higher rpm argues against that (they tend to be linear).

Last edited by TomM96; 02-23-2009 at 01:06 AM.. Reason: mispell

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Old 02-23-2009, 09:56 AM   #5
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Default Re: still running funny

OOppps forgot fuel filter done on friday
r-c timming? Not sure what that is

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Old 02-24-2009, 10:31 AM   #6
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Default Re: still running funny

Cola-
OldNuk was referring to the fact that the Saturn ignition is quite particular in its requirements of the physical design of spark plugs. Briefly , the conventional plug design with a fat cylindrical center electrode is Superior in the Saturn application because the surface area of that center electrode is capable of 'holding' an electrical charge of greater magnitude than the charge stored (time reference merely a brief transient!) by the very skinney [but superior quality regarding chemical or heat resistance] center electrode in the platinum plug.

Thus , while platinum plugs are better in many engines , they should be avoided in Saturn. The ignition module measures/controls ignition characteristics using the capacitance of the spark plugs , which , in turn , depends upon the surface area presented by the plugs' electrodes across the spark gap.

>r-c timming? Not sure what that is

Capacitors are linked to resistors {C-R} in timing circuits. Pt plugs don't function well in the ignition module sensing/timing/control circuit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC_delay
http://www.tpub.com/neets/book2/3d.htm
http://www.wisc-online.com/objects/i...objID=DCE10604

Last edited by TomM96; 02-24-2009 at 10:38 AM.. Reason: ref query

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Old 02-24-2009, 08:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: still running funny

ok the plug thing but had copper core in before and ngks now same problem and now have replaced map sensor. have come to notice this issue starts to happen when the car starts warmming up and is not noticable when ice cold

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Old 02-24-2009, 08:58 PM   #8
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1998 SC2
Default Re: still running funny

When the engine warms up the mixture leans out. A lean mixture requires a higher voltage to arc the spark plug gap. The fine wire electrode is polarity sensitive as to the direction of current flow. From the center to ground is low resistance and from ground to the center electrode is very high with a fine wire electrode. One plug on the coil fires center to ground and the other fires ground to center. The conditions that TomM96 mentioned are also in play.

Once you get this warm engine at idle misfire and find out that it might be caused by the incorrect plugs you have to replace the plugs and the wires as the excessive voltage damages the wires. You might get away with only replacing the plugs but its not a good bet.

I previously posted the correct plug number for your engine.

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Old 02-24-2009, 09:33 PM   #9
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Default Re: still running funny

ok i get the plug idea. but the problem is ongoing even before i went to the ngk plugs. identical 1800 to 2000 rpm range. so any other ideas

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Old 02-24-2009, 09:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: still running funny

Funny, I was at an auto parts store and they recommended platinum plugs for my SL1. I haven't bought any yet - so I should just get some conventional NGK plugs?

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Old 02-24-2009, 09:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: still running funny

Have you checked for an intake manifold leak. Spray some carb cleaner where the intake manifold meets the block. If the rpms go up or down you have a leak. I had one the other week. I replaced the gasket and now it idles nicely and the rpms are down to normal.

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Old 02-24-2009, 09:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: still running funny

changed out tb gasket and tried to spay intake but guess from top you can only hit the top edge. i'll try to get from bottom. thanks

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Old 02-24-2009, 09:57 PM   #13
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Default Re: still running funny

Of course, I forgot to mention, make sure you spray this while the car is running. I am assuming your are doing it that way.

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Old 02-24-2009, 10:54 PM   #14
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1998 SC2
Default Re: still running funny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubs View Post
Funny, I was at an auto parts store and they recommended platinum plugs for my SL1. I haven't bought any yet - so I should just get some conventional NGK plugs?
No Platinum Plugs, or any other fine wire electrode plug. They are only pushing what they have a high markup on and know nothing about a Saturn. If you find a parts guy who is driving a Saturn then you will get decent advice. You have an SOHC so you need NGK BKR4ESA-11 plugs and also, a new set of the mid priced direct fit spark plug wires. Plan on cleaning the ignition module before or at the same time you change plugs and wires. The answer to many questions will be found in the How-To Library. To get there take the forum jump at he bottom of the page and select it. Read the first 3 sticky posts. The first one is the index and links to the richpin DIY videos. Also, buy a nice new brass ECTS and replace the one that is in there now. Its a %10.00 part you can buy it the same place that you get the plugs and wires.

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Old 02-25-2009, 07:48 PM   #15
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Default Re: still running funny

ok so went to auto store and warrentied the ngk g and wires. went with new champion wires and the ac delco plugs and picked up a new mat sensor. still same issues. any thoughts

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Old 02-25-2009, 08:39 PM   #16
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1998 SL2
Default Re: still running funny

Is there any change in the exhaust when the engine labors?
Black exhaust?
I don't expect any based on your description but it doesn't hurt to know.

I'd go with Broman on the intake leak, not forgetting to check the condition of the vacuum lines coming off of the intake.
(It could be something as simple as a worn/cracked hose or hose connection)

but beyond that I would start to think about a faulty sensor or Control Module.

The sensors and PCM should show up on tester.
Auto Zone will usually do that for free if you can limp the car down to them.

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Old 02-25-2009, 11:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: still running funny

no change in exhaust. kinda concerned about running out of things to replace

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Old 02-25-2009, 11:53 PM   #18
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1998 SC2
Default Re: still running funny

Have you check ed for a leaking EGR valve? Take the valve off and cut up a can so you can block the port that nothing sticks into. Put the valve back and drive it.

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Old 02-26-2009, 12:06 AM   #19
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1998 SL2
Default Re: still running funny

Disconnect the Oxygen sensor and see if it will hold the idle.

Something must be telling the PCM to stop sending fuel.
It might as well be that.

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Old 02-26-2009, 12:21 AM   #20
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Default Re: still running funny

should pull it first before engine warms or pull it when warm

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