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Old 08-16-2006, 10:04 PM   #1
Lafouine
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2005 RELAY-3
Sad Do you have a solution

I have a RELAY 3, 2005, with 17000 km on the odometer. I bought the car new and have it for a year now. During that time, I had the same kind of troubles then many other Relay owners. Some were solved some were not . I will not enumerate them all, you have already heard of them. For the non believer I still have the repair invoice

I need help to find a solution for a new problem I have. A trouble that the dealer admit, that this time, he cannot do anything. And that is after a full afternoon of hard search.

I had the car in for a starter problem. It was repaired with a new software fix and a replacement of the Delphi ERG valve for another make. Since then the car lost power and torque capability.

It solved the starter trouble all right, but created a new and worse one. It is so annoying that my wife does not want to drive the Relay anymore. I have resume some of the symptom. If someone recognize what he went trough, I would appreciate, ( my dealer also) if he would share the solution.

When approaching a STOP, a slow traffic, or a curved road, I let go the accelerator it does not decelerate and the car does not slowdown. That means a usage of the brakes more than needed.

When following traffic, entering a highway, or going up a small slop it is not possible to accelerate gradually. The driver needs to push the pedal to use the kick down or have the transmission shift down. For the passenger it is not the most quiet ride

On the highway, with the cruise control on, going up an overpass, a small hill, or a stronger wind, the cruise ask the help of the kick down continually so to keep the speed it was adjust to. Also going down the same kind of hill the cruise does not keep the speed and at the bottom the car is going 10 to 15 Km/h faster.

On the same highway, without the cruise, it is very difficult to keep a cruising speed. For example if I want to keep a speed of 120 KM/H I have to continually push or release the gaz pedal of about 2 to 3 inches. If I start the bottom of a small hill at 120 km/h at the top I will be between 90-100 km/h unless I ask for the kick down or a downshift.

If some power is needed under 2500 RPM the feeling is bizarre has if the motor want to stall.

Any help or reference will be welcome. The service dept. at the dealer did what is humanly possible, but the respond at GM-Saturn tech was not very helpfull

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Old 08-17-2006, 08:26 PM   #2
davidsky
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2005 ION-1 Sedan
Default Re: Do you have a solution

Did this only happen after they replaced the EGR valve?
It sounds like something happened to the ECM/engine timing/etc during the repair and it reduced the power.
I'd keep pushing for a repair. Maybe try another dealer.
Does it sound any different?

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Old 08-19-2006, 10:16 PM   #3
Lafouine
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2005 RELAY-3
Default Re: Do you have a solution

To answer your question, they first made a software update to the computer to solve a starter problem. It is afterward that they changed the EGR valve when I reported the problem mentioned.

The explanation, they gave me, at that time, is that it is the computer who tells the starter to stop working, not the release of the key. Before the update there was to long a delay before the computer sense that the engine was running. So the starter continued to work for a few second while the engine was running. The update shorten that delay and solved the weird starter noise.

The symptom appeared immediately, on my way home after picking up the car. I contact the service dept. upon arrival home, to report the troubles I mention previously. They made some research and phone me back, to tell me that they had forgot to replace the EGR valve, which must be done when you do that software update, and it might be causing my new problems behavior But the replacement did not change anything.

The service department are doing what is humanly possible to give me satisfaction, but this time they admit having no solution, and GM is not much help putting the blame on the way I take care of the car. That is why I have submit my problem to this forum to find some help.

I thank you for the interest you take in my topic and trying to help me to find a solution because if you make an abstraction of all the problems the RELAY is the perfect car for my family of 7. I do not regret my choice, if only GM could put in some reliability .

Thank you

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Old 08-19-2006, 11:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: Do you have a solution

I've read your post and unless I'm incorrect I find your, or the dealer's, explanation highly implausible as to re-programming the computer to correct a starter issue (unless they didn't want to tell you they replaced the starter). Virtually every automobile starter is controlled by the driver physically turning the ignition key against a return spring within the ignition cylinder to make the electrical connection for the starter to turn on. And only releasing the key to return to the RUN position will the starter circuit disengage. Of course there are the antiques that utilized the push button start switch and the race cars utilizing the spring-loaded bat-handle type of switch but they also allow the driver to continuously engage the starter until the battery runs down, starter burns out, etc. but not allow the computer to interrupt the starter circuit.

Unless you are describing a keyless remote start add-on to your vehicle as I have on mine. This accessory item incorporates a separate control module/computer to allow one to remotely start their vehicle. This separate remote start computer module will have a timer circuit to allow the starter to engage for a specified time interval and then releases the starter circuit. Because local temperature variations can go as low as -50 degrees F. to as high as 120 degrees F. (depending on where the vehicle is located) the timer will be adjustable for the lowest temperature to allow a longer starter on-time since engine oil would slow engine turnover in freezing weather. Are you describing this situation?

The issue of the vehicle not decelerating when releasing the accelerator pedal may be due to the intake air control (IAC) as it allows the engine to return to idle speed according to emission control guidelines from the engine computer. It can be just a loose cable/connector for this IAC. It can also be due to a sticking throttle body plate not returning to its home position. Many things to check, your choice as well as possibly going to another dealer if nearby.

The lack of decent acceleration may be a possible throttle position sensor/connector problem and/or the EGR that was replaced. The EGR should be completely closed at idle engine speed and open at varying speeds for emissions/combustion chamber temperature control. All EGR's work the same way and reading some threads will explain cause and effect in normal and abnormal conditions. These are just some of my thoughts and I hope some of it helps.

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Old 08-20-2006, 03:38 PM   #5
Lafouine
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2005 RELAY-3
Default Re: Do you have a solution

Thank you for sharing your thoughts M. Dryer . As for the explanation to resume my problem, my English is not the best one but, it is exactly how the Service Dept. Director and the mechanic technician have explain what they have done on the car. They even added, that they did it under the recommendation of GM Tech Help Service, and if it did not cure the starter (which by the way it did) they will have to put a new one.

But just in case, I have print your argument and will submit it on my next monthly visit to the dealer due the first week of September. I have also an other item to check that was submit to me by a local mecanich. It is to verify if the barometric pressure is adjust to my region.

But what upset me the must with today's cars, is that the car manufacturer have arrange things that a local mechanic does not have access to all data they needs. I know a couple of them who are very conscious and reachable

If others have any suggestions I will be happy to examine it and have the dealer check the hypothesis on my next rendez-vous. Because in the Province of Québec we do not have the lemon law like some american state and the only recourse, I have, is to have GM make the repairs.

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