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Old 06-06-2018, 12:10 AM   #1
Wrenchturning
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2001 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default subframes,

Does anyone have a picture or technical schematic on a l series manual subframe. Im wanting to do a manual swap, but i cant find ****. Opinions should i leave the car auto or would it be ok to swap.

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Old 06-06-2018, 09:51 AM   #2
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2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: subframes,

I'm not sure that there is really much to know about the differences between the two sub-frames. There may be a difference with the exhaust system parts and routing (you can look that up for yourself through OE or aftermarket sources), but principally it's with regard to a difference with the transmission mounting. Difficulty will arise here. The availability of the mounts for the manual transmission is extremely low, and in some cases may be non-existent. Additionally, there were far fewer models sold with manual transmissions than with automatics so sourcing the part will be a tougher job - not utterly impossible, just tougher. The same thing will be true regarding the manual transmission as well and double check to see if you will need a different TCM.

A somewhat unusual feature regarding the M/T is that the slave cylinder is located within the transmission case. If it leaks the transmission has to be dropped to replace it. I see no reason to object to such a project as it's really a matter of choice and how much time you wish to utilize to replace the automatic transmission with a manual and, later, maintain it.

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Old 06-12-2018, 06:44 PM   #3
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2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
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Default Re: subframes,

I have BTDT (Been There Done That). MT subframes are only available from wreckers (car-part.com). I have done both MT and AT frames on different cars, and can tell you that the only difference is a small post on the rear cross member that supports the shift mechanism. If good MT frames become unavailable then it may become necessary to convert an AT frame by grinding the welds off the post of the old frame, transferring it to the same location on the new one and welding it on.

Yes, the exhaust routing is different. The exhaust manifold of the AT extends out from the head and the pipe is routed above the cross member of the frame. For the MT, this routing would cook the shifter parts, so the manifold bends down and the pipe goes below the frame cross member. That is why you need to drop the exhaust to lower the frame on the MT but not the AT. Also, the AT has the engine about 2" farther forward on the frame. This is done by mounts with different offsets. The attachment points on the subframe are identical.

Note - These frames are identical to those used on the Vauxhaul/Opel Vectra B. MT frames for these may be more common in Europe.

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Old 06-12-2018, 06:55 PM   #4
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2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
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Default Re: subframes,

I should have read your post better. AT to MT conversion on these cars would only be attempted by a masochist. As Pierrot stated, there are many things that would require changing. The MT has a somewhat different architecture for the computers. It has no TCM/PCM. You would need to transfer all the modules from a donor car to make sure they all talk to each other. The least painful thing you can do is find a manual transmission car and drive it.

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Old 06-13-2018, 09:21 PM   #5
Wrenchturning
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2001 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: subframes,

yea, to be honest i am going to sell here and buy a mustang (it is my dream car) i will post it when i sell it, just to let yall know it is a silver 2001 saturn l100 with a 2.2l ecotec. im fighting with the timing right now

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Old 06-14-2018, 12:59 AM   #6
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: subframes,

How are you fighting with the timing? The timing is designed to be non adjustable and any attempt to change means trouble.

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Old 06-20-2018, 12:46 AM   #7
Wrenchturning
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Default Re: subframes,

i replaced the timing chain, cam gears, crank gear, guides, oiler, and tensioner. i did not clamp down the cams, and it was out of time slightly, took it back apart, only to make it worse. looked it up on here to reset, followed what it said, i think i put it 180 out, took it apart this morning, to find one cam gear (intake) to be broken.

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Old 06-20-2018, 01:08 AM   #8
Wrenchturning
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Default Re: subframes,

oh, and i just need a picture of a subframe so i can machine a cable tower for my manual transmission.

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Old 06-21-2018, 01:39 AM   #9
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Default Re: subframes,

Have you found the picture or technical schematic on a l series manual subframe? It will be useful for me.

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Old 06-21-2018, 09:47 AM   #10
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Default Re: subframes,

I am going to throw this out there for thought since I have had several of these cars completely apart. Changing an automatic car to a stick is labor intensive since you really need to gut the shell and start back with the stick shift stuff. I drive a stick and have a stick shift car in pieces in the shop. Spare parts are difficult to find like the plastic shifter parts.
If I was going to convert a nice automatic car to a stick I would use a Saab 9-3 transmission and the cable shifter from that car. First that trans is the same f35 only with a cable shifter like an Ion redline uses plus it has a 4.05 final drive instead of the 4.45 stock ratio. I have an extra 4.45 and a 4.05 Saab tranny and will make a 4.05 rod shifted trans for my car. The automatic crossmember could be used with the cable shifter and maybe the only difficult part would be axles.

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Old 06-21-2018, 03:35 PM   #11
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
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Default Re: subframes,

I realize it is each to their won but for the life of me I cannot see the logic in going to the time & trouble of converting an auto L series to a manual L series. Why and for what purpose?

If you must have a L series with a stick shift, then just go out and buy one. It's not as though the L series has any claim to fame for being a great car as a stick shift. it doesn't really have a claim to fame period.

If I really wanted to have the opportunity to drive a stick Saab transmission, I'd leave it in that car as the Saab (93 or 95) is a much superior car to the L series.

The L series is a no nonsense plain vanilla wrapper that was sold to the buyer who wanted safe, reliable transportation. I have an old Automobile magazine on models for 2000 and 2003. It said the 2003 Saturn L series was designed for people who were in the witness protection program and who didn't want to bring attention to themselves. I think that just about sums up the L.

my son has a 2003 L300. it's a reasonable car, just not a great car. He's 19 and I bought it for him as his first car when he was in HS. He's in College now and it should see him through College (hopefully), then he can decide whether to keep it or trade up.

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Old 06-24-2018, 06:49 AM   #12
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Default Re: subframes,

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasl22002 View Post
I realize it is each to their won but for the life of me I cannot see the logic in going to the time & trouble of converting an auto L series to a manual L series. Why and for what purpose?
Same here as well. By the time your doing what your doing the cost would've bought another used Auto Saturn already. Your asking a 13 yrs old Saturn to do the impossible. Maybe if you did it the day it came out that be different but doing it so late in life will cost you more then just finding another used Auto Saturn to replace the current one and still have Money leftover. So sell the Manual Saturn and get a Auto Saturn. You should consult a trust mechanics to see the real cost of doing what your doing before thinking you can DIY to know the real Labor/Parts cost isn't worth what your doing.

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Old 06-24-2018, 07:06 PM   #13
Wrenchturning
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Default Re: subframes,

i was going to do it so i can keep the car to get use to driving hills in my manual before i buy my next car. but looking deeply into it, yall are right, im just not going to do it, im going to look for a cheap running manual car.

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